I am a Mom (with Anne, aka Angeleaza's mom!)

0:00 Tallulah 00:00:00 just gotta yap!

0:01 Angeleaza 00:00:06 Hey, everyone! Long time no episode. I am so sorry about that. I've been having some tech difficulties and with that in mind, I wanted to hop on before today's episode to let you know that this episode was recorded with the hope of airing it for Mother's Day. obviously it's much past Mother's Day, but it was still an incredible conversation with my mom. And please listen. Please learn. Please enjoy. And here we go. Welcome to What Are You, the podcast where everyone is feeling complicated.

0:02 Angeleaza 00:00:52 Join us as we reclaim, reframe and celebrate the many facets of our identities.

0:03 Angeleaza 00:00:58 Today we have a very special guest. This past weekend was Mother's Day weekend, so to celebrate, I have my mother. And welcome to today's episode. Well, thank you, Angeleaza. I'm glad to be here. Yeah, yeah. And before you say anything. Oh, Anne and Angeleaza know my name is actually Angeleaza. That's something that I frequently get. Your mother named you? a longer version of her name, but.

0:04 Angeleaza 00:01:27 No. No, not at all. No. We named you Angeleaza because you were born on the eve of the archangel's, feast day. And you were also born on your grandmother's birthday. Daddy's mother, the actress and everyone called her Leigh. Leah. And so we named you Angel. Leah and daddy added the za, and I loved it. There is a difference in vowels. Long vowel versus short vowel, Angeleaza versus an. So speaking of an, I'm probably going to call you a couple different names throughout the course of this up. I'm going to do the same. Okay. and if you do the same, then I'll probably have to explain what some of the other names you're calling me are. But welcome. Thank you for being here. This is my mother. She's frequently spoken about on other episodes of the podcast. and she listens to every episode and watches. So thank you for your support and your love. She is also a big encourager. Encourager? I guess, cheerleader, cheerleader for me in doing this work.

0:05 Angeleaza 00:02:37 So I'm excited for you to be on the other side of the mic. Do you mind telling the listeners a little bit about yourself? Okay, I.

Introduction to the Mother's Day Episode

0:06 Anne 00:02:46 My name is Anne and I am the mother of six. But, two are stepchildren and four are biological children. There is a big difference in age between the oldest biological child, Angeleaza, and and the second of the stepchildren who is 18 years older. So you're 33. France 30. JT is 28 and CJ's 27. You know, And I'm recently retired.

0:07 Angeleaza 00:03:17 Yay! Congratulations.

0:08 Anne 00:03:19 Yeah. I loved my work very much, but, it was it was the right time.

0:09 Angeleaza 00:03:24 And what did you do?

0:10 Anne 00:03:27 I was a school counselor for many years. Prior to that, I had a home daycare for about 11 years. And prior to that, it was a school counselor. And prior to that, I was, teaching middle school teacher. And prior to that, I was a third grade teacher. And prior to that, I worked, in, Christian house called Isaiah House, where we housed ex-offenders and helped them get restarted in their lives and also worked at a nursing home and a daycare during that time.

0:11 Angeleaza 00:03:59 Yeah, that's a very, very full career. Isaiah House was actually. Well, was was actually not too far from where we are right now. which I remember when I was first looking at colleges was one of the reasons I didn't want to look at Catholic, where I ended up transferring to because you lived and worked so close to there and then daddy also grew up in DC, so I was like, I need an adventure, I need to go further away. But before we get into the meat and potatoes of today's episode, I, as the oldest biological child, did not make an appearance until the tail end of round one of counseling. So you had a full, very multifaceted career journey, I will say before I was alive.

0:12 Anne 00:04:54 True. Well, I was 33 and we got married. And so 36 I got you. So. Yeah.

0:13 Angeleaza 00:05:07 You all know that I identify as a professional sports fan girl. And since I lived in New York City, I am hope that the New York Knicks just won their first NBA championship in 53 years.

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0:15 Angeleaza 00:06:16 Let's get into it so you know the drill because you listen to every episode, but on every episode, I do ask every single guest unless it's a bonus episode, the same question. And mommy, what are you.

0:16 Anne 00:06:33 Well, I'm multifaceted, of course. I am a mom. I was a wife, a mom, and those were to my greatest aspirations ever.

0:17 Anne 00:06:45 And I was also a school counselor, like I said before, but, but being a mother is definitely the best thing I ever in my life. Being a wife and mother. Yeah. Yeah.

0:18 Angeleaza 00:07:00 How appropriate. Because it's the Mother's Day episode, too. and do you want to say you're still technically a wife, even though your husband has two?

0:19 Anne 00:07:11 Yeah. Right. Right. I know, so that was the. The combination is the the greatest. Mom. Yeah.

0:20 Angeleaza 00:07:18 Do you want to speak today? More to being a mom and being a mother?

0:21 Anne 00:07:24 I would guess so, since it's the Mother's Day after episode. And then the aspect of of faith that plays a big role in my life.

0:22 Angeleaza 00:07:33 In a religious faith context. Amazing. So tell me about your journey to being a mother and having this be such a Critical formative facet of your identity. How did this come to be initially?

0:23 Anne 00:07:50 Well, when I was young, I. I just was a kid and played and everything I, I did like baby dolls.

0:24 Anne 00:07:58 I didn't like Barbies or that type of stuff, but I did like baby dolls. I had at least one Thumbelina that I remember really, really liking, but I also loved playing. I loved being outside. I love playing rough playing. that was a definite tomboy. I didn't like girly girl stuff or anything like that.

0:25 Angeleaza 00:08:18 When were you growing up? When were you a kid?

0:26 Anne 00:08:21 In the late 50s and 60s.

0:27 Angeleaza 00:08:23 Okay, so in that time, what was considered more tomboy and what was more girly girl?

0:28 Anne 00:08:32 Well, I think I was a tomboy because I like to play. I like to play. We would play British Bulldog. American Eagle was the same game it was. So we would try to run across the the field and someone would be in the middle to try to tackle you. And then if they tackled you, they got in the middle. and then everyone would try to get to the other side and they would keep tackling people, and it would try to be the one to finish without being tackled.

0:29 Angeleaza 00:08:57 And so it's like sharks and minnows football.

0:30 Anne 00:09:02 Maybe it wasn't. It wasn't even football.

0:31 Angeleaza 00:09:04 It was I mean just like in terms of the tackling.

0:32 Anne 00:09:07 Right. And I really enjoyed that. I love climbing trees and those types of things.

0:33 Angeleaza 00:09:13 And what were the girly girl activities and more feminine bottom coded activities that you didn't enjoy so much?

0:34 Anne 00:09:21 Well, actually, I did learn to knit. I did like that. But I don't know. The girl like makeup and, you know, dressing up that that type of stuff I didn't like. I remember when my cousins were visiting and, we were going to DC, we lived in Northern Virginia, and my mom would dress me up and I hated it. I was always uncomfortable. I think it was because of my discomfort with I'm so sensitive to. I can't have anything tight. It wasn't like it was tight, but it was just the materials weren't, I guess, breathing or whatever. It was like, I just, I just didn't like that type of stuff.

0:35 Anne 00:09:56 I'm not diagnosed ADHD or by my children. but, you know. Yeah, well, but I was not the, like, the bouncing beam type of thing.

0:36 Angeleaza 00:10:10 Okay.

0:37 Anne 00:10:10 I mean, it's cool. I was very nervous, very, very nervous, and would do everything I was supposed to do and sit right and hardly breathe. And, you know, I was very, very nervous then as a child. But my mind is always thinking. Always.

0:38 Angeleaza 00:10:24 Well, that's how I was and. Yes.

0:39 Anne 00:10:27 Yeah, right. You were you were good, very well-behaved. But I do remember, in one of your class pictures, you know, everyone's looking this way to the camera and your your head is this way, but you're not there. And I remember that you were looking. I guess just trying to make sure you know everything that's going on. My sister had her first child when I was a senior in high school, and that was like a real key that I was like, definitely, definitely wanted to have children.

0:40 Anne 00:10:59 And, that that really, was intense. You know, my sister having her first child, it was just a blessing. And I definitely wanted to be a mother. But then as I went along and I lived at Isaiah House, I guess it was my early 20s. I, really the reality of being a mother really hit me hard, you know, like that it's for the rest of your life, you know, and, the responsibilities it started like to, to understand. So, so I think it was a growth, you know, learning that, it's just not. Oh, a cute thing and.

0:41 Angeleaza 00:11:41 A quick.

0:42 Anne 00:11:41 Job, but but it's it's, like intense as, I mean, it's a commitment, that reality. I don't know what brought it to me, but it just I realized that it's something like the idea. I just can't just go out and play or go play basketball or go do something, you know, like I have to. There's a lot of other people I'd have to be considerate of.

0:43 Anne 00:12:01 And, so I guess I got a lot of it out of waiting to and not waiting until, but just until I was 36.

0:44 Angeleaza 00:12:10 What about being at Isaiah has prompted you to do some of that introspection?

0:45 Anne 00:12:17 Father Bill his father, Bill, he was a brother at the time, a Marian father, and now he has his own, Missionaries of Mercy order out in Colorado. He would do different workshops where we would have, you know, reflection, you know, introspection, you know, and, who we are in God and what we're called to be. He was very, instrumental in, in my life. And, I mean, I know, a lot of women and keep doing whatever they're doing and they're called to do and be a really great mom. but for me, it was more like the reality of it is an intense commitment. And I did want it, you know, but but the reality of it hit me strongly.

0:46 Angeleaza 00:13:07 So I, as you know, went to Catholic University and there is a saying they're called Ring by Spring and all of like the Uber Catholic girls of Catholic University who I guess really want to be mothers and want to be wives and are aiming for that very Societally expected and very traditional lifestyle.

0:47 Angeleaza 00:13:36 That would be the joke that they're all aiming to get a ring by spring, so that right when they graduated, they could basically get married and start having children. I mean, the joke is as if that's their only societal contribution, but it's also something that became a joke because in this day and age, in this modern era, it seems like something that just seems very rudimentary in a way. So there seemed to be this huge drive and it was said to be rooted in Catholicism. Did you ever feel like any sense of you needed to be a mother as part of your Catholic faith, or to be considered a, I don't know, a worthy woman in Catholicism?

0:48 Anne 00:14:25 No, no. Okay. It was just it was just like, you know, like a vocation is something you're drawn to, whether it's single life, whether it's as a religious a as a sister, a brother or as a priest, or a married person, whatever. road. That's for you. You know, it's basically following God's will.

0:49 Anne 00:14:47 Best. But prior to all this, I wanted to have a house where I would take in children, you know, that orphans. And so when I went to college, I started out in social welfare, but I didn't like a lot of the stuff going on with it. And I switched to, health and physical education. And I figured with, I have a degree, people will give me more worth, you know? And I was like, I just thought that was important. And, and, actually, I almost took a break during school time to go work at this house from what women in California. And my parents were open to me doing this. But then I, I don't know, it was like something came over me, like, I need to finish school. And they were happy about that too. But but yeah, I wanted to have a house with a husband, you know, that we would take care of children. and then that never actually actualized. Except then Isaiah House came about where we helped the ex-offenders trying to get them, like, out of their old neighborhoods and into habits.

0:50 Anne 00:15:56 Yeah, but I don't know that that that outlook that you were seeing that Catholic. Yeah. I mean, some of those young women that wanted to do that, that was maybe their vocation, you know, to to to get married young and have have children. And in the Catholic Church, you know, you follow your, your path, you know. And so I don't know exactly I had never heard about Ring by spring or any of that time.

0:51 Angeleaza 00:16:23 That's surprising.

0:52 Anne 00:16:24 Though I, I don't know, I never heard of that, But, I think when we put time constraints on it, we can limit what God's best will for us or whatever, but, but so I don't know, I guess you said it was a joke, too, so.

0:53 Angeleaza 00:16:40 I mean, it kind of. But also, have you heard of trad lives and the trad life, trend, if you will, or aesthetic that has been popular in the past couple of years. Trad wives are basically wives that lead that traditional lifestyle, and whether it's real or performative, people are drawn to it.

0:54 Angeleaza 00:17:03 A lot of it is associated with the general trends of the moment. And like the politicization of trends, like we are under a conservative administration currently in the United States. So there's a lot of talk about returning to quote, traditional Christian values or traditional Catholic values, and a triad wife doesn't have to be Catholic or Christian. I mean, Mormons are huge proponents of triad life lifestyles, and there's also a triad with influencers and things. But there is this sociopolitical perception that Catholicism or religion or Christ based faiths especially, tend to limit women into these more nuclear familial spaces and places and these roles. But I know two, because I know you, because I know your daughter. I know that you don't necessarily subscribe to that view of faith and religion.

0:55 Anne 00:18:10 Yeah, no. And I would have loved that in a sense. I mean, if I had money to just been a full time mother and that that would have been.

0:56 Angeleaza 00:18:18 Oh, it's not like being a full time mom, though. It's you're a full time mom, but you're churning your own butter.

0:57 Angeleaza 00:18:23 Your.

0:58 Anne 00:18:24 Yeah.

0:59 Angeleaza 00:18:25 Like raising the cows on the farm. Okay. And wearing long dresses will.

1:00 Anne 00:18:29 Already be doing that, but I'm not. Doing that. But I mean, I, I would in in a bundle like I would like that, you know, but I know how I am and but and I, you know, for some people that might be exactly what they want for sure. and I think it's like if people are following God's leaning, you know, if they're leaning into God and really try to follow him, the right things will come about for them. I mean, yeah, in my in my dreams, you know, maybe I would have liked to have been, like on a farm and doing this thing. The reality God knew me better. So I kind of had to work because, well, first of all, like my sleep, okay, I.

1:01 Angeleaza 00:19:11 I was.

1:02 Anne 00:19:12 I was not someone like, I, I was a night owl and it took me a while to fall asleep, but once I was asleep, I couldn't wake up.

1:03 Anne 00:19:20 Okay. And, and I kind of ended up needing to have a job that we we would. All right. I guess getting my kids to school. But if we homeschooled, I don't think that would ended up working because we came up at noon. But,

1:04 Angeleaza 00:19:37 I mean.

1:05 Anne 00:19:38 You never know. You never know.

1:06 Angeleaza 00:19:39 I don't think I would have thrived in a homeschool space.

1:07 Anne 00:19:41 Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I had, I had thought about that because you were so into theater and dance, and, I was thinking that would maybe save some of the time, just the exhaustion of taking you places, going, and and having the others and then having the daycare and driving people. That was that was a lot. But, I was thinking, boy, you just wanted to learn, you know, at home because you could learn a lot about yourself. And, you know, we could help you along, but,

1:08 Angeleaza 00:20:09 That's what I would have.

1:09 Anne 00:20:10 Yeah. But, Right.

1:10 Anne 00:20:12 But. And I think you would have done fine because you were so active, you wanted to be and you were so involved.

1:11 Angeleaza 00:20:18 but what about the rest of everybody?

1:12 Anne 00:20:22 Right. Right. I think the boys would have been very contented with homeschooling and Rihanna. Not sure. she probably would have been contented, but, But involved. I mean, like like doing your sports, doing dance, doing all the activities. That would be really important because you're having interactions with people. I mean, I always think that's important. And and growing up and you learn other skills, but.

1:13 Angeleaza 00:20:46 You never felt pressure from your faith to be a mother. You felt that drive in, that calling in yourself.

1:14 Anne 00:20:57 Right. It was within me. some women that want to be mothers also want to have a career and that can work for them if that's how they are created. It's just having like a village of people that can work with them, you know. But it, I think it's a lot harder. It's a lot harder to to do, because you have to be able to trust the people that you're having.

1:15 Anne 00:21:24 Watched your children and everything. I, I was lucky I was a school counselor when you were born, and then, I had a good maternity lead, and then I went back part time. But daddy watched you, like, we flip flopped. We didn't see a lot of each other for a while there, but we flip flop, you know? And so. So that worked out. And then when you were two, you did stay with, a friend of ours who had two daughters. for probably about 6 or 7 hours of the day. But we still juggled a lot because I, like when I was working part time, would be like going to bed at midnight when I'd be going to bed. That's right. Or it should still be. And, And daddy would feed you breakfast, and then by the time I got home, we wouldn't have together. And, then have all evening to play, you know, or rather, so it just make it work, you know? they trust that you're doing the right thing.

1:16 Anne 00:22:21 And, And I was so drawn to it, I wanted to be there, you know? So. So that was very, very strong for me.

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1:19 Angeleaza 00:23:44 So looking back at what you said earlier about wanting to adopt orphans and bring them into your home when you got married and everything, what happened with that goal or that dream or that piece of this? I want to be a mother identity.

1:20 Anne 00:24:06 A bit morphed, you know, and it and had that, like I said before, I say a house And then, from there, I started, teaching third grade.

1:21 Anne 00:24:17 And, so when I was teaching third grade, I these children, some of them had really, really hard lives. Really hard lives. And, actually, the reason I went to teaching from Isaiah House was I thought, if you can get people when they're younger to start with, like good habits and stuff like that, that will help them as they grow. And that's part of why I became a third grade teacher. Besides, you know, getting the job. I don't know, but but know that was really important to me. But as I was a teacher, I realized that some of them had really hard lives outside of school. And, I just remember one little girl was supposed to choose which parent to go with, and she was eight years old. And I was like, wait, wait a minute, and I don't know. I mean, that's I don't know what the state was saying about it, but that's what her parents were saying about it. And, I don't know.

1:22 Anne 00:25:20 And just kind of talking to them like after school or in places, I was just like a recess or whatever. that that's where my calling. That's where I was like, leaning to that, working with one on one or a small group. and that led me to go back to school for counseling. And that's, I know that that was father Bill helping me and, the direction, that God wanted me to go. That was the focus then. Okay. to go and get that counseling degree.

1:23 Angeleaza 00:25:57 What were your ultimate goals once you became a guidance counselor? And once you got your masters and your certifications, you had to get certifications to be a counselor, right?

1:24 Anne 00:26:08 Yes. It's depending. Depending on where where you were. I worked in Catholic schools. Okay, so some of them had the certifications for teachers, but it wasn't necessarily, needed to the same level for the school counselors. After I finished my degree, I still taught part time and counsel part time at the same school where I taught third grade in middle school.

1:25 Anne 00:26:31 So I had my family. My family. There was students. It was like the greatest experience, one one class per grade. And, so very, very entwined.

1:26 Angeleaza 00:26:43 Sixth, seventh and eighth grade.

1:27 Anne 00:26:45 Six seventh, eighth grade boys, part time religion and math, maybe. I, I think, I think one year I did English and that was not my strength. So I think I did religion in math, the year or whatever. and part time counseling. but from there I went to the high school, and that was where, I really, you know, knew that that was a role I should be doing or a vocation that I should be doing.

1:28 Angeleaza 00:27:18 They said.

1:29 Anne 00:27:19 That.

1:30 Angeleaza 00:27:19 When you were at Isaiah House, you saw that or you had the thought, what if I could interact with these people at a younger age? And so they don't get to the point where they become offenders and then eventually ex-offenders and are working with Isaiah House, what if I help them younger? And that's where what took you to being the third grade teacher when you were working in high school? Did you feel like that was a more impactful time of their lives to help them out? Or did you not have that as your main primary goal anymore?

1:31 Anne 00:27:53 I don't know.

1:32 Anne 00:27:55 it was just what unfolded. that, that the school where I was didn't have the finances to continue to have a. It was a K through eight. Catholic school didn't have the finances to still pay for another position. And then, I was able to get the position, at an all boys high school, and with full JROTC.

1:33 Angeleaza 00:28:22 That is JROTC.

1:34 Anne 00:28:24 So, will the ROTC for the military that they do junior.

1:35 Angeleaza 00:28:29 Okay.

1:36 Anne 00:28:30 and that they would have it in high school, they'd have to wear their uniforms and have a strike. They'd have inspection every day. I, I really loved it. and so I don't know where my goal thought was going there, but I needed a job, and, And I didn't originally think I would love high school so much. and I did, you know, it was. That was kind of unexpected. And how much I loved it. I wasn't the college counselor there. Okay.

1:37 Angeleaza 00:29:02 I then went to college. Counselor. Well, I have to explain.

1:38 Anne 00:29:05 This to a college counselor. really helps with the whole process of, helping a student figure out what they want to do, having helping them with their applications. I'll help, you know, guiding them, the process of figuring out what schools to apply to, etc..

1:39 Angeleaza 00:29:22 It's like a career counselor, but for college.

1:40 Anne 00:29:24 Yes. And, so I was like academic slash personal or whatever. and basically I always tried to meet the students where they are, you know, because, I don't know if it's my quote, ADHD or that I didn't know I had. I really, really tend to get why you can't get things done. Like, I was an excellent student though. And but I it was because of my conscientiousness. So total Conscientiousness, but but to to try to really understand where they are, you know, if they're struggling with getting work done and struggling, doing things, I really could understand them where they were or whatever they were doing that was so important to listening, you know, and kind of trying to, help in the process and, and encouraging to.

1:41 Angeleaza 00:30:22 And empathize.

1:42 Anne 00:30:24 To total and empathy. Yeah. Yes. so I don't know where that other dream of the orphans were, but except the, the, the Isaiah house. And then I ended up doing daycare.

1:43 Angeleaza 00:30:37 Can you explain a little bit about what doing daycare is, or was it for us or for you?

1:44 Anne 00:30:45 so I was at school for, I think seven years. and then I was pregnant with Brianne. I had you while I was there, and, like I said before, we did the juggling for whatever the time period was. And then I went to school, took a it was like a 90 hour program gain licensed as a daycare home daycare provider. We we were lucky. We had the garage garage converted to a playroom. And, it was ideal. You know, we had the the the toys, the, the walls with, you know, very, very inviting. Daddy did so much and making it so inviting and we had to get fingerprinted and have had the background checks and all that.

1:45 Anne 00:31:32 And then, we, I structured the day pretty much of, you know, we would have circle time. I don't remember the order right now, but, we have a music time. We have PE or, you know, and we go outside and we tap our snacks to to snacks and lunch. and, and I remember you and some of the others when Harry Potter came out, and it was so cute that you all created a show and it's a performance. And I had rules like the the county had rules. You could have two under two, and my own children counted in that. So which is a good thing, you know? I appreciate it. And I had a lot of part time families. So they, they were people that, were very involved in, in their children's lives. And it wasn't like they weren't trying to get from 7 a.m. to 6 p.m., you know, being just dropped off and they whatever. I had people that, you know, like, would do normal hours or 2 or 3 days a week and, I, I ended up having some really great friendships.

1:46 Anne 00:32:46 when those families have continued to this day. And I was the school counselor of three of them when they were in high school, it was just like, again, you know, being in God's will, you know, just kind of bump, bump, bump, bump. And, and now one of them's getting married. Yeah.

1:47 Angeleaza 00:33:03 Which is wild. And then why did you stop doing daycare?

1:48 Anne 00:33:08 Well, CJ, my youngest was in first grade. First grade. And, it was time. It was time to go back to being a school counselor.

1:49 Angeleaza 00:33:20 And when I was in ninth grade. Right. And then you followed me. I gave her a good referral. Yes. Yeah. so you started at my high school my sophomore year.

1:50 Anne 00:33:33 which was a blessing. I mean, I did a year at a different school. that my high school and and which was very good, except the community would take me at least an hour getting there, but many times, three hours to go pick you up.

1:51 Anne 00:33:48 Going to your your school. It was. The commute was much better. Yeah, I remember, I remember. You know, she did Angeleaza did give me, amazing accommodation. The only only I don't even think you realized it because the.

1:52 Angeleaza 00:34:05 One that was okay.

1:53 Anne 00:34:07 The woman. The woman who, was retiring, was subbing in a class of yours. And you found out that she was one of the school counselors there, and you said, oh, my mom said. And, she loves her job or whatever. And that, I think, really helped. Oh, you know, because you're welcome. Because he said that I loved my job. And, And then,

1:54 Angeleaza 00:34:31 Yeah. Look at me just talking and not even knowing what I'm saying and doing.

1:55 Anne 00:34:37 Yeah. So I think.

1:56 Angeleaza 00:34:38 Changing the course of history, I'm.

1:57 Anne 00:34:40 Sure that helped. And then I was there 18 years.

1:58 Angeleaza 00:34:43 Yeah. And so you retired.

1:59 Anne 00:34:44 Right. And you went through a gran JT and CJ went through, high school.

2:00 Anne 00:34:52 And it was, with me. Yeah.

2:01 Angeleaza 00:34:55 And daddy almost did, too.

2:02 Anne 00:34:57 Well. yeah. Yeah, he he was going to start working there. right before he died. He was. Yeah. He was retired already, from his other job. And then he was going to start there, but then, I guess. Yeah. Got a different plans.

2:03 Angeleaza 00:35:15 Going back to your identity. Oh, yeah. Right. That's right. when you were a guidance counselor, when you were a teacher, what parts of that desire to be a mother did that sort of fulfill or did it deepen that desire?

2:04 Anne 00:35:37 I wasn't married when I.

2:05 Angeleaza 00:35:39 Started.

2:06 Anne 00:35:40 At, high school. and then got married while I was a counselor there. I learned, some of the students had no boundaries. And there were parties. There, there, please. Coming. You know, like stuff like that. And the students that had boundaries and had to work and didn't have a lot of money, were really good, hardworking students.

2:07 Anne 00:36:11 And I didn't plan that. We wouldn't have a lot of money. I didn't plan that. We would have a lot of money. But at the same time, I thought that, let's say if we were rich, I still wouldn't have wanted to have raised my children with, being entitled. I, I, I saw the entitlement hurt, and, I learned that there, but, I, I just knew that I still wanted to have children, though.

2:08 Angeleaza 00:36:41 You know, in that time when you were working at the high school, you became a stepmother.

2:09 Anne 00:36:46 yeah. When I'm daddy and I got married. Yes. Yeah.

2:10 Angeleaza 00:36:48 Right. So to my older brother and my older sister. And how did that feel for you? I mean, you're still their mother, but at that time, did you feel like, oh, wow, I have a child? Or was it not even like a conscious thought or a concrete thought like, oh, I'm going from being not married and not having children to in one marriage, being a wife and a mother right away.

2:11 Anne 00:37:16 Right. Well, it was more like a mother of one, because the other one was older. With Mark, I, I knew Mark since he was, like, in third grade. Yeah. And then it was just kind of more natural. it was different, you know, in the sense of, like, I guess, Okay. I felt like daddy was the, disciplinarian. Right? That's right. The disciplinary and the one who, you know, I would follow his lead because, I mean, Mark was, 18. Yeah. No, 16. Oh, 16. 16. And, so. Yeah. So I would back die. But daddy was the main person that was there, you know, in support of daddy, in support of Mark. I thought that would be ridiculous of me coming in, you know, in these 16 and, you know, making rules from. No that didn't have any. Yeah. Yeah. No, I didn't see that. I felt that

2:12 Angeleaza 00:38:17 So when you had your biological children, you were like, oh, wow, I can have rules for them.

2:13 Anne 00:38:24 Yeah, but daddy still was good to me. And in the sense, Yeah. Yeah. like, if you if if it were just me, your lives would be different in different ways. And if it were just him, it would be different in different ways. I don't know.

2:14 Angeleaza 00:38:44 I think there have been two extremes. Chaos with you.

2:15 Angeleaza 00:38:50 and.

2:16 Angeleaza 00:38:52 Like, not crazy chaos, but like, fun chaos and a daddy, like, strict, but like, with, like, moments of levity.

2:17 Angeleaza 00:39:01 Yeah.

2:18 Angeleaza 00:39:02 Yeah.

2:19 Anne 00:39:03 Like, he probably would have been, more sheltered and with hands. Yeah. Yeah. And, I always say led a sheltered life, but he didn't make. He teased me about it, but he liked it.

2:20 Angeleaza 00:39:32 Before I just ask you some more questions about being a mother. do you mind just giving a brief observation of how faith, played a role in your life as on your journey to motherhood. To this point, other than you, no other Bill and Isaiah House.

2:21 Angeleaza 00:39:50 What other ways did your faith, play a role in your life?

2:22 Anne 00:39:56 Well, I was born Catholic and, raised Catholic. and I know many people, you know, go different directions and stuff like that, but I didn't, I don't know, I used to read, like, the Lives of the Saints when I was, like, in elementary school. Like fifth grade. I remember especially, that that may have been when we were making our confirmation. I think so. so I read a lot of those. They always used to say what you put into mass is what you got out of it. And I would try to put stuff in and see what I would get out. I don't know. and that.

2:23 Angeleaza 00:40:35 Pause real quick for listeners who are not familiar with Catholicism at that point. and you were probably in fifth grade. Vatican two occurred and Vatican two essentially was, what was it, a congregation or it was a conference that radically modernized Catholicism and radically modernized mass like for the first time, the mass was allowed to be said in a language that wasn't Latin.

2:24 Angeleaza 00:41:05 so that alone was a big deal. There wasn't a strict dress code for attending mass. Did that occurring in a relatively formative part of your life impact your relationship with your faith at all, or did it make it more accessible?

2:25 Anne 00:41:23 I was young, you know, I, I, I don't know, I just flowed with it because I was, I was young enough that, like, it wasn't like, oh, like something, you know, wonderful or terrible. It was happening. I do, I think my parents were very positive, you know, with, with how it was going. And in the early 70s, they got involved with the charismatic movement within the church. And, and so did I. and what.

2:26 Angeleaza 00:41:56 Is.

2:27 Anne 00:41:56 That? It was the, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. And so there would be prayer meetings and deepening of faith and being very open to the, the Holy Spirit leading in our lives. and I think I went to my first prayer meeting. I want to say the end of sophomore year of high school.

2:28 Anne 00:42:14 And, I remember I really loved it. And, in that same weekend, I went to a, I think it was called a fire. Fire. It was like a Samoan feast. Oh, they had they they did a roasted pig in the ground. And I was like, at this point, all these years later, I remember that. I just thought that was the best weekend between the prayer meeting and the. For a few, if that was the name, I don't want to.

2:29 Angeleaza 00:42:39 Say the wrong answer. Yeah.

2:30 Anne 00:42:42 But I had so much fun. Natural fun, you know? not not, pretense or any of that. It was like a lot, a lot of fun. And my parents, in their prayer group, they, they helped the Vietnamese, refugees that came over, and they, they helped with housing and jobs and, remember when they would talk to the Vietnamese, they would talk really loud and it was like.

2:31 Angeleaza 00:43:12 Oh, mom, why are you talking?

2:32 Anne 00:43:14 They didn't realize they were doing it.

2:33 Anne 00:43:16 They for some reason, they thought you would they would understand you better because it was different language. Yeah, but it wasn't it wasn't.

2:34 Angeleaza 00:43:23 People still do that now, but it wasn't like.

2:35 Anne 00:43:27 It was totally unconscious. And they were like the. These are both saints, I know. but it was, they they took care of them. They took care of this guy that got out of prison. the prayer group kind of wrapped their the their arms around him. they were just, like, good. And, and then they got involved with the prison ministry after I had been involved with it, and they kept going down to the prison every Sunday, even when I wasn't going.

2:36 Angeleaza 00:43:56 You've always seemed to have a. Good or. This is my perception, at least, that you've always had a very spiritually rooted relationship with your faith and with Catholicism, which is impressive because of especially now in this day and age. Again, going back to the sociopolitical mess of it all, it seems that as I've gotten older, for me, my observation and I know Bryan, JT and CJ and a lot of other people in this world feel the same way.

2:37 Angeleaza 00:44:37 It feels like the politics and the societal understandings of religion have just become almost. I mean, I have almost taken over the spiritual course of faith, of the faith and the religion. And it's like every time I've gone to a church, it's just like, what?

2:38 Angeleaza 00:45:01 Take the church.

2:39 Angeleaza 00:45:02 Is this going to be. Is this going to be a church where everything is done for show or, and everything's going to be like very political? Are they going to be are there going to be people here who say that they have the same religious belief system as I do, but then they believe such different, in my opinion, harmful things than I do. do I think that Their understanding of their religion is driving them to go against everything that Jesus seemed to have preached and like the Bible seems. I mean, it's I know it's an up to interpretation, but like seems to say, or are they taking it literally and not thinking that the Bible is up to interpretation? So I guess going back to my question is, how have you managed to kind of cut through all of that noise and maintain, at least from.

2:40 Angeleaza 00:46:04 That.

2:41 Angeleaza 00:46:04 External point of view, such a pure relationship with.

2:42 Anne 00:46:13 Your faith?

2:43 Angeleaza 00:46:13 Yeah.

2:44 Anne 00:46:14 The relationship is with Jesus and the faith supports it. so my I don't know if it was my dad or just an expression. don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. you know, when you're, like, giving a baby a bath and you empty the water, the dirty stuff goes away. Yes, there's there's corruption. There's, bad in, you know, in any type of organization. I mean, sure, it or there can be. so, so even though there, like, there were bad things within the Catholic Church, with, the were.

2:45 Angeleaza 00:46:53 Right, right.

Meet Anne, Angeleaza's Mother

2:46 Anne 00:46:54 Right, right. No, but I'm just saying those things that's the people are in it for the wrong reasons. Okay.

2:47 Angeleaza 00:47:01 When you're.

2:48 Angeleaza 00:47:01 Talking, you can't.

2:49 Anne 00:47:02 Control. You can't control. Everyone that chooses to become Catholic chooses to become a Christian in another denomination. Catholic Christian or a Pentecostal Christian or a Baptist Christian.

2:50 Anne 00:47:14 You know, I mean, you were following Jesus and, and that's that's how I can separate, you know, like, I'm not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. The Eucharist is central to Catholicism. And yes, there's been stuff over. Over the years and like, like you said, still,

2:51 Angeleaza 00:47:34 As recently as today, even. When we're recording this. Really? Well, not from the Catholic side, from people.

2:52 Angeleaza 00:47:43 Yeah. Well.

2:53 Anne 00:47:44 Well, there's also that that national Christian thing that is very political. and, that the Catholic churches try to stay out of the politics, but they like when things immoral are going on it. You you have to say something. You know.

2:54 Angeleaza 00:48:04 When you're saying the Catholic Church, are you specifically referring to the pope, the Vatican, as trying to stay out of this? Because you and I have talked about instances that I've observed, or maybe you've observed some, too, of higher level leaders in the church. kind of. Kind of. I don't know.

2:55 Angeleaza 00:48:26 Stirring the pot a little bit and bringing the church closer to or intermixing politics and the church.

2:56 Anne 00:48:34 Yeah. I happen to be in a parish that is very, very welcoming of everyone. and I think that if we look in, in the New Testament, Jesus's life, he reached those at the margins. You know, he welcomed everyone. and I think that is first and foremost. and if a church is trying to pull away from that and cutting out certain people or saying, you have to do this, vote for this or this person, and over that, that's not what we are called to do. We're given free will and we are given a brain and, and we are we are to make a conscious, conscious, moral, consciously moral decision in what way? We go like like in the situation where you talk about telling people who to vote for. no. The church. That's not what the Catholic teaching is, that you you make an informed decision, a moral decision based on what you know, and you try to investigate what's what and then make your make your decision for.

2:57 Angeleaza 00:49:54 Some of that outside noise ever, like, seep in and make you feel sad that there is this close affiliation about so many people have in their brain with like we'll call it the political Catholicism and the spiritual Catholicism. Like, for example, there was something, let me say maybe like a month or so ago, where one of the cabinet officials was encouraging a war internationally and quote, in the name of Jesus Christ. And I know that the Pope spoke about that. But in general, like people may probably not see, the Pope.

2:58 Anne 00:50:39 Person is Catholic.

2:59 Angeleaza 00:50:41 Supposedly. Oh, but I don't know. I feel like, yeah, I mean.

3:00 Anne 00:50:45 I know who you're talking about.

3:01 Angeleaza 00:50:46 Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I feel like you find like I will see maybe some commentary somewhere that the Pope denounced this. The church denounced that, but it's buried under the loud, clickety noisier headline that so-and-so says this in the name of the church, or so-and-so says that in the name of the church.

3:02 Anne 00:51:11 Yeah, that that that was horrible.

3:03 Angeleaza 00:51:13 Yeah, right. I mean, that's not an isolated incident. So. So I feel like in terms of from the general public's point of view, they I mean, this alignment is just being strengthened by the way that the media and the news cycle kind of churns out these headlines. And it and even if the media is not saying, oh, but he's saying this, but, you know, don't really listen to him in a Catholic way because like, he's not like, this is not what the church says. They they're not saying that. But the implication is because they're not actively saying it is like, oh, snap, this is another Catholic thing, you know, does that like sort of sentiment of a Catholic thing, like where and it's just associated with wrongdoing and hatefulness and exclusion. Does that make you sad?

3:04 Anne 00:52:08 Well, of course, I mean, I'll be sad if things are misconstrued. I know on one summer I was working, it was this house in Virginia, and, the the priest would have college students come, and we would do work in the area to help the people.

3:05 Anne 00:52:26 We were building the house. We had a, a Bible school. We and I don't know what else we had. We had a couple other things. And one of the things, this nun who was working there, in the summer and, this friend of mine, myself, we were supposed to go around to people's houses and talk to them, and that maybe was telling them about the Vacation Bible School. I think that was so.

3:06 Angeleaza 00:52:52 It's a great set of other things.

3:07 Anne 00:52:53 Right, right. You know, because I was not, I was not one to was the word proselytize or whatever, but, but it was I think we were inviting families to know about the, the, the Bible school, and, one girl, I don't know if she was like 10 or 11, maybe 12 is, talking to us. And she found out we were Catholic. She's like, you're a Catholic. And like she was always told Catholic people were horrible and all these bad things. And she liked us, you know, and, but it was just like.

3:08 Anne 00:53:28 So, like, this depends sometimes where you were. You're raised, you know what people know, like, a lot of ignorance. You know, you don't know. You know what you don't know. Yeah. And, and a lot of times, you know, when people are saying that, you know, this is what Catholics believe or this what these Christians believe, it's like sometimes, you know, we don't really know until we find out more, I guess.

3:09 Angeleaza 00:53:53 Then getting back to the original question is, does the ignorance make you sad? The ignorance of the masses to just not even to like the intricacies of faith, but just like the understanding of what is religion? What is politics? What is Catholicism versus Westboro Baptist Church?

3:10 Anne 00:54:16 I don't know, I just. Somehow I somehow stay out of the the political side of this in the sense of the, the church. and what I would want for people is to have a relationship with Jesus, the, the founder of Christianity, the founder of what originally was everything was Catholic.

3:11 Anne 00:54:44 I mean, but you're called Christians. It was just it started then and he, you know, had his apostles anointed them anointed Peter, you know, upon this rock I will build my church. And, and then, you know, over the years, it kept growing. A lot of corruption happened, different time periods, but a lot of good. And, so it's just like. just if they understood that it has. The succession has been from Jesus all these years. The anointing, the laying of the hands of each priest. And like I said, some people have gotten into it for the wrong reasons. Yeah. And, you know, but we have to go back to the center and try to keep the real reasons, you know, that the real founding of how did Jesus live? And that's how we are to continue to live. And yes, there's a lot of, you know, the the show and that type of stuff. That's some people like that. I'm not into that really.

3:12 Anne 00:55:45 But but that, you know, some people like it can be very holy and all, but and it speaks to a lot of people. But, the, the bottom line is that's where the communion, the Eucharist was from all those years. And, and that's why I'm Catholic. You know, that's what continues to draw me, is that this is this is my body. This is my blood. We're just not. This is bread and and wine, and we're sharing a meal, which is great, but it is. His body is his blood. And that's where, the the difference is with a lot of, like, I'm a lot of people of other denominations are wonderful and, and and a lot of people living super great lives. But for me, the draw is the, the Eucharist. That well.

3:13 Angeleaza 00:56:44 Then what would you say? And not to convert anybody because again, he don't want to proselytize or preacher be a missionary or. But what would your message for somebody who is just turned off by the whole idea of Catholicism because of a poor taste in their mouth.

3:14 Angeleaza 00:57:09 The maybe. Close minded, exclusionary taste they have in their mouth, or corrupt taste they have in their mouth from everything that they hear, the clickbait, the media, and also just the the misuse of Catholicism, saying things in the name of the church that are not at all applicable to the church or just, are just fully used out of context with anything, or what do you say anything to educate them or inform them. It's not so much the people who have actively chosen to hate it. It's more people who have been conditioned by the state of the world and the state of the information that they receive through osmosis or whatever, to. say, hey, everything I'm hearing. I know that personally, my values don't align with that. So I don't want to align myself with that, or I don't want to align myself with people who might align themselves with that.

3:15 Anne 00:58:16 You know, well, it would depend on how much they know, you know, like and like if, if, if they're just saying that's based on hearsay, you know, like,

3:16 Angeleaza 00:58:27 It is all.

3:17 Anne 00:58:27 I could, like if they wanted. I mean, if they asked, I could say, you know, you could talk with a priest maybe, or, even online. I think your cousin, wife listens to Father Schmitz. He does like the Bible. In the year type things. He reads like a certain amount of scripture and then kind of talks a little bit about it. but then he has a lot of little lessons that I don't know as much about or, you know, it's something like that could be helpful for some people to to learn more because he is speaking, like the church and he's but he's encouraging. He's he's speaking, the teachings. but or they could seek out, like I said, the priest or I would probably, you know, suggest that if they wanted to know more. Yeah. But, but also just to pray just to everyone, you know, like whatever denomination, whatever, to to pray. Take time each day if you can, you know, try to even five minutes if you don't have a lot of feel like, feel like you have a lot of time just to, just to seek out God's will or the truth.

3:18 Anne 00:59:40 And,

3:19 Angeleaza 00:59:41 But also that and what I'm hearing, too, is that the root of Catholicism is not to hate, is not to exclude.

3:20 Anne 00:59:50 It's founded on Jesus. Yeah. And our we see what it is. Any the the evil spirit can really mess with everything to. Yeah. You know and just pray for protection. Your protection from all evil and harm. You know, for you, your siblings, myself, the the people we encounter. And now, you know, praying for our country. I mean, things sneak in, you know.

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3:22 Angeleaza 01:01:02 Zero life.

3:23 Angeleaza 01:01:13 What do you love about being a mom and your identity as a mom?

3:24 Anne 01:01:20 Having you were my first having you. Just giving birth. Giving birth was very, very hard.

3:25 Angeleaza 01:01:33 Yeah, that's what I.

3:26 Anne 01:01:35 Get ready, right? 48 hours of labor.

3:27 Angeleaza 01:01:39 For her birthday.

3:28 Anne 01:01:40 And, But giving birth and having you. That was just the most unbelievable, phenomenal thing I've.

3:29 Angeleaza 01:01:52 Ever.

3:30 Anne 01:01:53 Had. And the ones that followed, you know, just just.

3:31 Angeleaza 01:01:59 Followed.

3:32 Anne 01:01:59 Right. You know, each each experience, you know. I it's indescribable for me. It was just so, so amazing. And then taking care of each of you, you know, feeding you, nursing you, helping you as you grow along, learning right from wrong as much as possible. You know, just kind of giving a direction, a foundation so that you all can eventually, you know, be who you are in the world, which is really hard for me, but in the sense of, you know, you're but it's what has to happen.

3:33 Anne 01:02:36 You become like, you know, the your adults, you know, you do and, and and I appreciate all that all of you are doing. it's just like, sometimes I just. You must like. Yeah.

3:34 Angeleaza 01:02:48 Should I speak?

3:35 Anne 01:02:48 Yeah, I, I do. I still love being a mother and I still Yeah, that is like the best thing in the world. And I feel bad, like, for someone who can't have children or whatever, that, if they, if they want them, you know, but I still, you know, it's just, but there's many children that can be adopted too, you know. and that's that's important.

3:36 Angeleaza 01:03:13 I tried to convince you, to adopt three more siblings so that I could be Liesel in, like, the Von Trapp family, but we'd be the Anderson family singer.

3:37 Anne 01:03:25 Yeah, yeah. Right. You you were were you about seven then? Or. I don't know, maybe I saw that sound. yeah. Maybe we're a little older.

3:38 Anne 01:03:34 Yeah. But. Yes. Yeah. Well, that's how you were. You wanted to perform. I wanted to be right. I know, but, I mean, as far as I only had so many years to be children, I was blessed with four. And I was really, really grateful because, when you have your first at 36. there's not a whole lot of, active, hormonal. Or were there years there so that that was a blessing?

3:39 Angeleaza 01:04:03 Yeah. Well, what I'm not going to say. Or at least favorite. But what is the hardest part about being a mom?

3:40 Anne 01:04:12 you all going? I mean, it's it's one I understand, and it has to be, but but going now.

3:41 Angeleaza 01:04:19 Oh, so you didn't dream of being an empty nester?

3:42 Anne 01:04:22 Never never, never. That's not. That's not. I mean, each of us is different. And that that was me, you know? Yeah.

3:43 Angeleaza 01:04:33 Yeah. Well, what would you. I know what you would say, but tell the listeners what you would say to someone who isn't, who maybe doesn't want to be a mom or isn't sure or kind of toggles between wanting to be a mom and not wanting to be a mom.

3:44 Angeleaza 01:04:55 What would you say to them?

3:45 Anne 01:04:59 What would they say?

3:46 Angeleaza 01:05:01 What advice would you give them?

3:47 Anne 01:05:09 I'd have to understand them in the sense of what's holding them back. and I mean, the culture of life is great, you know, but but maybe they're, there's fears that, might be that they might need to explore, you know, and try to understand that, and it's not guaranteed that if they, you know, that they will have a child. You know, so sometimes it's just that letting go and not worrying, you know, you know, just allowing what happens to happen. And you always get the grace, you know, to to be able to get through situations. so yeah, like, I mean, you know, the, the hardest, one of the hardest parts was when that, sniper was around, and,

3:48 Angeleaza 01:06:09 And do you want to give any more?

3:49 Anne 01:06:12 Oh, when the then the DC and the surrounding area sniper was around. That was horrific.

3:50 Angeleaza 01:06:18 Fall 2002. It was a year after nine over 11.

3:51 Angeleaza 01:06:22 Yeah.

3:52 Anne 01:06:24 Was it the year after? Okay. you just never knew where he would be. And that was extremely stressful with having the you all, and just trying to protect you, you know, running into school with your backpacks in the front and behind you.

3:53 Angeleaza 01:06:44 And so you don't sound super crazy. There was one of the sniper shootings, was at the middle school, like very close.

3:54 Anne 01:06:50 To us, to where.

3:55 Angeleaza 01:06:50 We live.

3:56 Anne 01:06:52 And.

3:57 Angeleaza 01:06:52 Where we went.

3:58 Anne 01:06:53 To school. But it was just so terrible, but that I got to the point of breaking, like in the sense it was so, so hard. and I remember going up to my room and, on my knees praying, and I begged the Blessed Mother to intercede for, for all of us. I couldn't take it any longer. And,

3:59 Angeleaza 01:07:20 With any of us.

4:00 Anne 01:07:20 Could spend a couple hours. He was. He was caught with our two. I don't know, it was like it was, It was that was that the greatest, greatest, greatest thing?

4:01 Angeleaza 01:07:32 Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was, a rough time.

4:02 Anne 01:07:36 The other thing that I would really want to find out, what would the, you know, the fear. Yeah. The context of someone who was unsure. because in everything, even, you know, I see in so many things, simple things like, during Covid. sometimes they wouldn't have, like, we were getting the food delivered and, but I had started that before with the Instacart before Covid, but, I would, you know, order all this stuff, and they didn't have. But what what we got was good. It worked for us. And one time I ordered all this meat. Oh, my God. Because I, because they were always out of so much of it. And they happened to have it all. and somehow we fit it in our tiny little refrigerator that's refrigerator for our college dorm where we were living then, and, and in it, in the boys, I, you know, it it fit, you know? so we like just simple things. So we always got what we needed, and and now I'm, like, seeing so much at a time, you know, someone's running late.

4:03 Anne 01:08:43 Well, it's okay. You know it's okay, because we will. It is what it is. And we'll make the most of when we get to the place or whatever and not. I'm just like, those are simple, simple little things, but, just in my game, this job like that, I just, got this job. My finances are not that great, but God always provided. And, and now that I'm retired, my brother said I would last ten years or whatever if I didn't do something, then, but based on what he knows. But I it's like I always know God's going to provide for me. And, and I get this wonderful part time job that, is just perfect. Things do work out. Yeah, things are hard, you know, that doesn't take away your heart. And there's, you know, definitely.

4:04 Angeleaza 01:09:32 Hard.

4:05 Anne 01:09:33 Stuff, but, it's definitely worth it in my in my mind, but but and but I want them to trying to try to figure out what is holding them back, you know, and trying to figure out not maybe not everyone's, called, you know, following our, our vocation, our own, you know, what we're called to do, but taking the time to to pray for, for that, to have.

4:06 Angeleaza 01:09:58 That self-reflection, that introspection, even if that prayer is not where they live, their version of prayer, what they need. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I know that and I know you know this too. But like, for me, I actively didn't want to have kids for so long and be a mother because, well, I think you said this when I was much younger, that you said, well, I think you're a little too vain to have kids. That's at this point or what? At whatever point, I don't know, but I was but like, that wasn't that wasn't never why I didn't want to have kids. It was more like I just never knew one way or the other. And then after daddy died, that kind of took a lot of time to even figure out. No, I don't want to have kids. And just the pain of, like, the fear of having to lose again, lose a child or be a parent that is lost. That was for so many years after I kind of had that, realization.

4:07 Angeleaza 01:11:13 That was really hard. But it's also, I think that's something that I'm not going to even say worked through. It's just, I think I, I know and understand myself in life better now, and I can make a more informed decision. And I think that more informed decision is maybe having kids now in the future. What was your biggest, trepidation before having kids? And I also know that you did experience some loss in regards to that.

4:08 Anne 01:11:53 Yeah. Well, yeah, because I had miscarriage before you and and and before Bran. But, what was my biggest trepidation? Being married later and all, I was ready. You know, so I don't know if I had gotten married younger. What I would have thought, I think I still would have wanted to have, I probably would have had like, ten children if my body could do it. I don't know if my body could do it. I know that having my fourth, I was really afraid to have them come out of me.

4:09 Angeleaza 01:12:24 Because.

4:10 Anne 01:12:24 Because of the experience.

4:11 Angeleaza 01:12:26 Of, oh, yeah, I was not good.

4:12 Anne 01:12:28 When I had JT as far as, yeah, my doctor was out of the country and the other doctor. Oh, my gosh. Was, Just just. It was just a hard experience. not not like super long labor like yours. That was just different. I think my body just wasn't used to this happening. It's like, what are you doing? You know, it's just like. Or you just wanted to stay where you were. I don't know, but. But whatever. that that was very different. this was the actual burst, and, Yeah, it was very, very hard. It was. My other doctor was excellent. He was. He was just phenomenal.

4:13 Angeleaza 01:13:13 were you nervous about, like, as we grew up, like us encountering a stage of life or a situation and how you as a mother would navigate or help us navigate that, or you would guide us through it or not?

4:14 Anne 01:13:26 I wasn't nervous about that beforehand, but it's more after like as far as, you know, there's a lot of a lot of concern, safety.

4:15 Anne 01:13:36 You know, whether it's safety in the house, safety with people, safety outside, you know, like I was. Yeah, I am, I.

4:16 Angeleaza 01:13:45 Am are you are not was is so.

4:17 Anne 01:13:49 Currently I still yeah I I want you all to you know, always say your prayers and bless you and, and be, you know.

4:18 Angeleaza 01:13:58 As far as your children are all in or just outside major cities in America.

4:19 Anne 01:14:03 Yeah, yeah, but, but, yeah, things can happen anywhere. Yeah. but, yeah, that, that that was the hardest. Or it was the hardest, you know, that the safety. Safety. I always pray that you're safe, healthy, strong, holy and pure. yeah.

4:20 Angeleaza 01:14:20 And then when when daddy passed away, did you feel or fear or think at all about how that would change your dynamic as a parent or just your experience.

4:21 Anne 01:14:42 Yeah. I mean, losing a parent at a young age was a big concern for for me, for you all.

4:22 Anne 01:14:52 but

4:23 Angeleaza 01:14:54 Because also maybe let's clarify that because daddy was 45, about to turn 46 when I was born. And so he was an older parent to start with, but he still died very.

4:24 Anne 01:15:09 It was right. It was just a sudden thing, you know, and then daddy was much more okay having you make sure you all do your jobs just taking care of things. And I would always, like, be the person. Like, they have so much to do. They have so much homework. They have there. There are activities. I felt like you always had so much going on. I was like, I wasn't as concerned whether you made your bed or not, whether you, clean something or whatever, that wasn't, a concern. And then, then afterwards, it was like, I felt like it came back to haunt me when we were getting ready for Christmas. It was just like, oh, I'm sorry, Tony. You know, like, I probably should have had to do a little more at first, but it was like, it came back to haunt me like that.

4:25 Anne 01:16:02 Now I'm like, you know, good is good. My dad used to say, perfect is the enemy of good. And as I've gotten older, I'm. I'm realizing that it is what it is. You know, it just, we, you know. Yes, there's some things people have to be super good in, like, if they're building a bridge and all those types of things, but then other things in their life they don't have to to worry about. Yeah, it's a fine line, you know. Right. Because you want you you want your children, you want your self. You want to do your job. But there's limits. And it's still good to be conscientious. I don't learn shake anyone from being conscientious. But but there's levels and yeah whether somethings you know.

4:26 Angeleaza 01:16:51 Yeah you're just.

4:27 Anne 01:16:52 Want to let go. Just go and and do what? Do what you can. And but with you know, just there's 24 hours in a day. So you have to also kind of abide by that too.

4:28 Lauren 01:17:10 Hey, I'm Lauren, host of the Naked Truth with Lauren podcast, where we have real stripped down conversations about mental health and adulting. If this episode resonated with you, I think you'll love my free weekly newsletter, Community Gratitude Practice. Every week you get a quick dose of gratitude to help you focus less on what's missing and more on what's meaningful in your life. And if you want to go deeper and feel less alone in your struggles. Come hang out with me on the podcast. Find it all at The Naked Truth with Lauren. I'd love to have you.

4:29 Theme Music 01:17:40 When I grow up, I want to be back. When I grow up. I'm gonna be Britney Spears.

4:30 Angeleaza 01:17:47 Let's get to the final segment. So every episode I ask my guest. When you were a kid, what did you want to be when you grew up? What was your dream or what was something that you wanted to be? It could be fun. It could be boring.

4:31 Anne 01:18:05 I probably just wanted to be a kid.

4:32 Angeleaza 01:18:08 You didn't want to, like, have an imagination.

4:33 Anne 01:18:10 Like, oh, I had an imagination. I wanted to be, like, a detective or something. Maybe. Oh, But I didn't know. I mean, if I don't remember saying this, but as far as I remember, I really like liked Trixie Belden series because, my mom made us read in the summer, like in the middle of the day, and I was, but I ended up once I would start, I would like it, but it was. I just wanted to play. You know, all I want to do is just be outside. Yeah. And,

4:34 Angeleaza 01:18:39 Which is good and healthy.

4:35 Anne 01:18:40 So, I don't know, like, if I really thought of, you know, like, something that I wanted to be, you know, but it I, I've definitely liked being a kid. but in terms of being, I was hesitant about growing up, too. Why? I know, no, like, in becoming, like, a teenager, it was just like teenagers.

4:36 Anne 01:19:08 Yeah. You know, and and that that's the mental. Like what? I interpreted adults just to think. And, so maybe that's why I was kind of like, I still like being a kid. Yeah.

4:37 Angeleaza 01:19:21 So then you learned, you know, before retirement that, teenagers weren't on that bad. But when you were a.

4:38 Anne 01:19:28 Kid, when I was a kid.

4:39 Angeleaza 01:19:29 We wanted.

4:40 Anne 01:19:30 Right? You know, you just kind of like, I don't know, I, I don't know, I was very close with both my parents, but, but I guess maybe, like my dad, when people had the chance. Transistor radios, walking around, like, I think he was like, oh, yeah, something like that. But but he wasn't. Oh, he was not a negative person at all. And, but I my interpretation sometimes would be like, not, you know, like I did do it for a little bit, but I always wanted to. I don't know. Be good or be good for him, you know? And, so I don't know if that was that was part of it.

4:41 Anne 01:20:16 You know, you never know inside a kid's mind, what they're thinking. You know, and you don't realize maybe certain things you say or do or whatever. How it's interpreted.

4:42 Angeleaza 01:20:34 Thank you so much for agreeing to be interviewed and happy Mother's Day. Happy belated.

4:43 Anne 01:20:41 Thank you. Thank you. And I do want to say one thing. Happy Mother's Day to all the mothers out there, whether they have their own children, adopted children, whether they're just taking care of someone or just around children at some sort. And one other thing, you know, each person is you're you're unique. And so what motivates you and what you strive for? You can still.

4:44 Angeleaza 01:21:07 Work.

4:45 Anne 01:21:07 Out if you if you do choose to have children or if you're blessed with children, if you figure out a way, it's just just with a little creativity. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yes. But. Yeah. Happy mother's day.

4:46 Angeleaza 01:21:20 Happy mother's day. Thank you for being the best mother. She is the best mother two.

4:47 Anne 01:21:26 Well, thank you.

4:48 Angeleaza 01:21:27 I guess having.

4:49 Anne 01:21:28 Heard you have to say that. No. Okay.

4:50 Angeleaza 01:21:30 No. We love having you be our mom. No. We try to make you feel as special in life as you are to us. And, try to let you know that in whatever ways we can. And hopefully, you know how much we love you and how special you are to us, and how how lucky we feel to have you and how much you've touched so many other people's lives.

4:51 Anne 01:21:56 Thank you all. And I feel extremely blessed, you know, with each one of you. Thank you. Yes.

4:52 Angeleaza 01:22:04 We try to make you guys proud. All right. Thank you. Happy mother's day.

4:53 Angeleaza 01:22:13 What are you. Is a one woman production by me. Angeleaza to support my independently created work. First like and leave a comment on this episode and subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts. Next, become a buy based subscriber at What Are You podcast to get early episode access, ad free listening and bonus content.

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4:55 Theme Music 01:22:54 Dreams. Waking up. Waking up. Speaking of dreams. Quick quick quick quick quick quick quick quick quick quick quick quick quick quick quick quick quick quick quick quick quick dreams.

4:56 Angeleaza 01:23:11 If being a parent is a part of your identity, then this message is for you. Recently, I learned that myopia, or nearsightedness, is becoming much more common in kids, and as a former nearsighted child, it is definitely not something you want to ignore. If it goes unchecked, it can have an impact that goes way beyond schoolwork. An eye doctor can help determine whether your child may be developing myopia and talk through management options designed specifically for kids like Essilor. Stylised lenses. Stylised lenses look like regular glasses, but they're part of a more thoughtful approach to managing myopia. If you're a parent and you've been meaning to book your kid an eye exam, let this be your sign to finally do it.

4:57 Angeleaza 01:23:56 Visit slate.com. To learn more about stylist lenses and to find an expert eye care professional near you. That's SILOR.