I am a lifelong learner with a broken arm (with Emma!)

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:00:03</time>
Just Gotta Yap
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:00:14</time>
I'm named Angeleaza and this is what argue the podcast about identity, where we're creating space to have honest conversations, celebrating all that we are. Hello everyone and welcome to today's episode of What Are You, the podcast where we explore the multifaceted nature of identity. And today we have a very special guest, my friend Emma. Emma and I, um, we were in the same class last semester in our grad school program at Harvard, um, whatever, just outside Boston. Um, but We had an on-campus weekend, and Emma showed me all around Cambridge and all around Boston and outside of the many hours we spent in class that weekend, we spent a lot of hours outside of class hanging out and chatting. And I'm so excited that you're here today, Emma, welcome.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:01:17</time>
Thank you. I'm excited to be here.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:01:19</time>
Yes. So Emma, can you tell us a little bit about yourself?
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:01:23</time>
Yes. So I, as you mentioned, I'm a grad student. Um, so it takes up, that's the five to nine after the nine to five during the day. Mm-hmm. I work, um, I know a communications professional in the architecture and design space, so I spend a lot of time writing about architecture and our projects and the communities that we impact with that. Um, I am also a wife and a cat mom. Um, we have a dog too. And I
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:01:51</time>
Tell us how you really feel.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:01:54</time>
The dog also lives here. No, that's great. It's, it's a ton of fun. Um, I am a California native, but a Colorado local now and, and asker of deep questions and a drinker of fine wines.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:02:08</time>
Ooh, I love that. You would think though, and correct me if I'm wrong, you would think that a liver of Colorado would be drinking craft beer more.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:02:19</time>
I'm getting into it. I'm branching out, I'm getting into the craft beer scene.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:02:23</time>
Does the lover of fine wines, does that come from the California in you?
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:02:29</time>
Um, I think so. I think it comes more from the Italian in me. Ah, yes. Sweet. Um, my dad's mom is very Italian or was me, she rest in peace. Sweet grandma. Um, but she, um, parties were always had fine wines, right? And so the Italian culture, the, the pasta, the music kind of growing up around that. And we didn't have too much like culture, I think in the family if we had to clinging to. So I really clung to like nana as we called her culture. And I just, I, so drinking Italian wines made me feel closer to her growing up because I came of drinking age after she had passed. So it was kind of like, oh, an Italian wine, like Nna would've loved this. And so we got really into, I think wines that way. But of course in California there's wines everywhere. Oh my God. And like we lived on the central coast around so many wineries, and so to not go wine tasting, to not know anything about wines. Felt wrong, kind of like not drinking beer in Colorado felt wrong.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:03:24</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:03:24</time>
And so, so just kind of, you know, got to know it that way. And it became fun to learn about them and like taste the differences in them. But ironically, I really don't enjoy California wines. It's a French or Italian wine for me.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:03:37</time>
Ah,
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:03:37</time>
interesting. It forsaken my homeland.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:03:38</time>
So every episode, Emma, we talk about the different facets of our identities because we know, uh, that we're all made of multitudes today. I know that we wanted to do a little bit of a deep dive, a little differently than we do a lot of our other episodes. So Emma, what are you?
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:04:02</time>
I am a lifelong learner with a broken arm.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:04:07</time>
You are?
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:04:08</time>
But not forever. Not today. I'm not forever.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:04:11</time>
Okay. Let's talk about it. Let's start with the broken arm. How did that happen?
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:04:18</time>
So I like to challenge myself. I like to learn new things. I like to identify an obstacle and overcome it. I am an overcomer. It's fun for me for whatever reason. And sometimes this drive to challenge myself lands me at a grad program at an Ivy League school. Mm-hmm. And other times it lands me in the er. And this year we had the latter. So I decided in the spirit of being a good Coloradan, to learn to snowboard
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:04:52</time>
first
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:04:52</time>
time. And it went fine at first time ever. Okay. I took a ski lesson, um, a few years ago when we were in Switzerland, Uhhuh. 'cause we said, what are we doing here if we don't ski? And so, you know, we like had an instructor and we were going down little bunny hills and like, that was, I was never any good, but I had so much fun. And so I was going to ski out here. Uhhuh. Try it. Try it. It's so fun. Mm-hmm. Once you get it. And then when you fall, just don't like land on your wrist.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:05:18</time>
So that's what happened.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:05:19</time>
Yes. And we were doing good. We'd gone probably a dozen times this year and Colorado's having this famously bad winter. Right. I think it's our driest, warmest winter in the recorded history.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:05:30</time>
Wow. Really?
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:05:31</time>
Yeah. Like Tahoe has gotten more snow than us. Like I think the entire rest of the nation has gotten more snow than us. Our ski lifts are running on manufactured snow in like 60% lift capacity. Wow. So I'm blaming the elements right now. Okay. Ah, but I just, no there. Yeah. Um, having so much fun learning slowly, but like having a good time with it and fell and caught myself wrong and a couple er scans later. Now I've got titanium plates and a cool scar and a great story
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:06:04</time>
Titanium plates in your wrist.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:06:06</time>
Yeah. I shattered dude forever. Wow. I got a plate in three screws. I think so I was on a lot of drugs when the surgeon came in and said I could name them, which was so exciting in that state of mind. So we've got Benny and the Jets in here,
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:06:26</time>
Uhhuh
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:06:29</time>
holding me together.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:06:32</time>
I love that. Did you name it while you were on the drugs?
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:06:39</time>
Yeah. Yeah. They had an IV in my arm and they're like, you're gonna, they're just trying to like cheer me up. Right. They're like, it's gonna be fine. They'll be with you forever. And I'm like, forever. And they're like, you can name them if you want.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:06:50</time>
Wow. That's
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:06:51</time>
incredible. And that's the last thing I remember before blackout.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:06:55</time>
Wow. Blackout from the drugs or the pain?
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:06:58</time>
The drugs. Fortunately there was no pain. I felt nothing.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:07:02</time>
Wow. Great.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:07:02</time>
As it should be. As it should be. Good.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:07:04</time>
Good,
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:07:04</time>
good,
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:07:04</time>
good. So, um, were you in a cast?
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:07:08</time>
I was, um, I was in a cast for a few weeks. And then like a soft splint, which we just got off at my post-op on Friday.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:07:16</time>
Ooh,
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:07:16</time>
nice. So we got clear x-rays and now I can work on a range of motion. 'cause this is all we got right now.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:07:21</time>
Oh my God. I'm so sorry.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:07:24</time>
It's okay.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:07:24</time>
But
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:07:26</time>
you up?
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:07:27</time>
Yes. On the up. Well, I, I wanna pause on the cast very quickly. So this is something that I have recently become mildly fascinated with all of my encounters with injury over the years. I, knock on wood, I have never had a cast and my siblings similarly have also all had many an injury because of our athletic endeavors, um, that we genetically have inherited and. Only one time did anyone ever have a cast, and that was my sister. But she's fine. Whatever. When you're an adult with a cast, a full grown adult as you are, because Emma, you are 30. 30. Mm-hmm. Turn 31.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:08:23</time>
I am few more days.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:08:25</time>
So exciting. Um, okay, so you're, you're a full, legitimate human adult.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:08:32</time>
Legitimate human adult
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:08:34</time>
with a cast.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:08:35</time>
That's my bio. Or you
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:08:36</time>
had a cast? Do people sign it?
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:08:39</time>
I didn't have anyone sign this one.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:08:41</time>
Okay.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:08:41</time>
Um, I plan on walking around with a Sharpie, but that didn't happen. Um, I had to travel for work a few times in between this accident, which I think is part of the reason. Um. It like it happened the way it did because we went snowboarding on, it was MLK day, we had Monday off, right? Mm-hmm. And so we're like, let's go get a few runs in. And I'm like, you guys, I am leaving for Chicago tomorrow. I've got a flight in 24 hours. I was like, I can't get hurt. And we're learning, right? So I am, and I've done no sports before this. We need to note, I, I am not an athletic person, which I think is part of my identity that I think is changing or I want to change. Yeah. But I was the girl that skipped PE that like my mom would put me in like rec league, T-ball or soccer. And I'm like sitting on the field picking daisies. 'cause I'm like, I'm not about this. I don't belong out here. This isn't me. I didn't watch sports. I didn't play sports. Like it was not in my vocabulary. And then like my late twenties come, I turned 30 and I'm like, I wanna learn. Oh, I started, I took golf lessons, I joined a tennis club. I buy a snowboard. So there's like these, I think these voices in my head that are like. This isn't you, who are you, what are you doing? So some context there, right? So then hit the slopes. I'm trying to be, I'm trying to be a snowboarder now, and it is so fun. And we're having fun, but I'm falling all the time. And that's just part of the learning process. So you embrace it, you get back up and you're like, eh, everything hurts, but let's go again. And so we're, but I'm like, I got a flight tomorrow so I gotta be gentle. I gotta be careful. Like no one asked me to go faster 'cause I'm gonna go slow. Wait for me at the bottom of the run. I can't get hurt today. I can't get hurt today. And what happens? I finish the day in the er. Right? Of course. And so I had to do a lot of traveling for work with, 'cause corporate America. Right?
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:10:28</time>
Right.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:10:29</time>
Straight from the ER to the plane. And so I'm in this cast, I'm in this sling. Everything's like, eh. And um, people are so helpful. Oh, when you are just like a little woman in the airport in a sling, oh my goodness. People a renewed faith in humanity, like to be dramatic. People were so nice, like coming up and helping with my bag, asking if they could do anything for me. I'm like, I practiced at home, like putting my coat on with one arm and this like dad fellow came over and just like helped like lift it over my shoulder at the gates and people just being super, super kind. And it's Colorado in the winter, right? So people are like, was it skiing or snowboarding? And then they're pointing to their scars and they're screws and you're making friends. So like it was, it was a little heartwarming on one hand where you're like, like, this sucks so bad for me. Like this is new. I don't have a history of injuries or sports injuries any less. Like this is all new territory for me. But this idea of like, I am so not alone in this and this like stranger wall where you're in the airport and everyone is just kind of in their own lane. And doing their own thing, ignoring each other politely. Like to break that down a little bit. And people just being like, I've been there. Like, let me get your bag for you. Do you need some help? Can I carry this for you? That was me last winter too. You're gonna be okay. Like, just really cool. And I found like the people that did come and help me usually had something to say, like, I've been there, you know, it'll be okay. Or, that's so sweet. You know, I, and so like, I feel like there was this like instant, we know nothing about each other, but we have one thing in common. Yeah. And it's the boat that we've both had, we have had this injury or something like that, you know? And the way that people were able to like, at least in my short experience, you know, here, maybe they knew it was just my first injury and everybody was just, they just sensed in, they're like, help that poor girl. Right. But I felt like they were able, like there was a sense of like connection right away. That people like see that like people like identify us with their injuries, right? Because everyone, like, everyone's got like a scar story or a broken bone story and people connect over that. Mm-hmm. And so like seeing that and having that sense of, oh, I've been there. I know what it's like to need that kind of help. And like, I mean, it's not gonna be like that for everyone everywhere. I think I had a really fortunate experience and I'm super grateful for it. 'cause it did just help emotionally get through what was a really like, frustrating time. Um, for sure. But like, it was just interesting to kind of have those like super fast sometimes interactions with people and then just right away be like, I don't know who you are and I don't care, but I've been there. Let me hold your coffee for you.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:13:03</time>
It is kinda like a secret club. Like, like it's literally battle scars. It's like mm-hmm. Um, people showing off there's tattoos or their piercings and like finding the pieces of their identity that kind of link them together. Um mm-hmm. Because while our differences make us unique and special, like having shared traits as well, help us to connect and relate to each other, even if it's as simple as. Oh, I see that you also have your cartilage pierced. Oh my God. Me too. What was your experience like? Did you get it at Claire's with a nail Yes. Ring on? Or did you go to a reputable place that did a, you know, small things?
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:13:50</time>
Yes.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:13:51</time>
Big difference. And start that conversation.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:13:53</time>
Mm-hmm. No, I was getting my, um, one of my splinting, like rewrapped after surgery and the technician was talking to me and he was like, first time, you know, whatever. And I was like, yes. You said Welcome to the club. And I'm like, is there some kind of VIP lounge or something? We get and we're in the orthopedic office, right. And he kind of just leans back and says, you're in it. Like no
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:14:16</time>
love. Wow. He probably loved you. You set him up for the, for success.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:14:22</time>
Oh my God. The whole time I'm sitting there, like I don't wanna look at it, but he's like, first time.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:14:28</time>
Yeah. Well, um. Before I kind of circle back, I wanna talk about your childhood as growing up. Mm-hmm. As the kid who did not get sports injuries because you didn't do sports. But before we get there, um, how bad ass did you feel when you saw Lindsay Vaughn also similarly fall down the map? I'm gonna say similarly, I'm not gonna say it's the same, and I, I honestly, I'm so
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:14:56</time>
nothing but respect
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:14:58</time>
because like,
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:14:59</time>
I mean, there's a risk every time you strap into some skis or a snowboard, you do any kind of snow sport. Right. I saw this joke on Instagram where they're like, some Olympics, see what humans can't achieve. Winter Olympics. See what humans can survive. These are so intense and so, and also, yes, and I mean, the amount of work it takes to be so mediocre at skiing or snowboarding is crazy. I mean, maybe people that grew up like surfing, skateboarding, ice skating, that have. Balance. Maybe. Maybe there's some translation and skill there. I wouldn't know, but it's insane. And so it's like the idea of, you know, her being like, I've worked so hard to get here. I would rather risk the injury than sit here wondering what if I have so much respect for that. I, I could never, I have just simply not strong enough as a human, mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually. Yeah. But I have so much re I'm glad she's okay. It's glad, devastating, devastating. But you're just sitting there like, I mean she's like picking at what, like 60, 70, 80 miles an hour. Right. I think I capped out at 19 one time.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:16:06</time>
Amazing.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:16:07</time>
We're the same. That's
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:16:08</time>
really
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:16:08</time>
fast still. No, I think there was, um, one, one of the guys in the snowboarding big air competition. I think. Yeah. I'm so not a risk taker. Like I understand the passion and the drive, not to that degree. By any means, but like I, you know, you see it in these athletes they train forever for Yes. This, these, you know, sometimes 30 seconds of competing.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:16:29</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:16:29</time>
I have so much respect for that mentality that says I'm gonna push through. I know my body, I know my limits. Yeah. I'm gonna do my very bad. I'm gonna leave it all out there. I have so much respect for that drive, you know, and maybe it's because I'm not a risk taker that I just see that and I'm like, wow. Sitting on my couch going, wow.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:16:50</time>
Well I don't think that you're not a risk taker. Maybe you're, maybe in some areas you're not a risk taker. Maybe you're not going a hundred plus miles per hour dead.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:17:01</time>
I'm not a risk taker says the girl that bought a snowboard and broke her arm.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:17:04</time>
Yeah. I mean, like that is a risk.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:17:06</time>
I hear it. I hear it.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:17:07</time>
Anytime you put yourself out there, you know, to try something new. That you're, you're, that's a risk inherently,
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:17:16</time>
you know? Yeah. I mean, it's calculated, right. You know, like you think through the what ifs and the what will I do if this happens, and okay, I can be okay with this. I can't be okay with that. You know, there's a limit here that this is an acceptable risk. You know, I can get, I like, you know, what you can handle. Yeah. Versus what is maybe too much, like if there's like, you know, the unknown is something that you can try to understand, but you can never eliminate completely.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:17:40</time>
Sure.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:17:40</time>
So I guess finding where you sit on that different for everyone in every situation, I think.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:17:45</time>
No, definitely. And you said something that, um, Olympians and athletes of that caliber, they know their limits. I'm gonna, I'm gonna rebut you on that one. I'm gonna debate you and say, I think the mentality that they have comes from not recognizing that there are limits. Because why should they be putting limits on what they can achieve? Like I think it is a lot of why not philosophy, which is why they're at the level that they are, but also can contribute to some wild injuries and wild things happening to your body. I think, um, one of the very few people, um, or maybe two of the very few people who are at that caliber and know their limits, um, physically and mentally and we're able to recognize them in a very public way, are Simone Biles and mm-hmm. Um, also Alyssa Lou. Mm-hmm. Um, uh, Simone Biles when, uh, in 2021, she said, not I gotta pull out, I have the twisties, I'm not. My anxiety is too high. I'm not in the mental health space to do this and be safe. And then Alyssa Lu went after Beijing in 2022. She, um, then said, okay, I did the Olympics once, and like, yeah, I didn't medal, but I got in the top 10 and this isn't healthy for me anymore. I'm retiring from the sport. But then came back and was like, actually, I did need that space and time to figure out who I am and what I need to do this healthily in a way that preserves my body. And mm-hmm. Recognizes may maybe some of my mental limitations as well as my physical limitations because it's all connected. Right? Yeah. Um, but I think both of them were so much, I mean, clearly so much better for listening to their body in that way, but, mm-hmm. As somebody who has had to learn the hard that oh yes, body does have limits. And, uh, the trying to push past those limits can sometimes do the opposite of what you want, which is to keep going, keep pursuing, keep pushing, thriving.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:20:18</time>
Mm-hmm.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:20:20</time>
I'll, that I will say I feel like that is the overarching mentality with some of these Olympians. Yeah. But I'm so fascinated by your perspective and how, I wanna know how you ended up here. So
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:20:37</time>
Me too.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:20:38</time>
You were the girl who did not. You, you skipped gym class, you said, or you like,
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:20:46</time>
oh, I would like, make up every excuse to not participate. You know,
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:20:49</time>
and you, you just didn't want to participate. Like, it's not like a Oh, I don't wanna be picked to last. Like, I don't feel confident in my
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:20:56</time>
skills. Literally, in 11th grade, in PE we're picking teams for like field soccer, whatever, one day. Um, field soccer, you know, field soccer as opposed to other kinds of soccer. He was like a, some field sports, either soccer or kickball or like something like that. Yeah. And I was picked after a guy on crutches. I, I mean, to be fair, the guy on crutches was actually on the varsity soccer team. Okay. But he was still on crutches. And I watch him get picked and like hobble over to his little team captain and I'm like, I'm a meme right now. Like this just happened.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:21:34</time>
Oh, no. Not a
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:21:36</time>
me. I didn't, I, I didn't participate. I had no interest. I was like, this is not me. I do not belong here. Um, and like, I think part of it, because I, you know, spent a lot of time stewing this thinking, how did I get here as I'm sitting wrapped up in ice and covered in plaster and being like, who, my mom being like, you, you, no, that's not you. I'm like, it's, it wasn't me, but it is me today. And how did we go from that to that? Right.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:22:04</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:22:04</time>
Um, and for so long, like sports come easy to some people, some people have this like more natural athletic ability than I do. Mm-hmm. And that's an understatement. Okay. Some people it just, it clicks for they can see it and repeat it. My husband is one of them and I hate doing it. Things with him, any outdoor physically coordinated thing with him because he can just, so just
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:22:32</time>
have a little credit here. Your husband is from Hawaii, correct?
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:22:36</time>
He is, but he's also, he grew up in year-round sports, recreational sports, competitive sports. Like everything that you can like put a child in on a team, on a league to compete with. Yeah, he did. And so like, you know, part of it, he has this like this history and this muscle memory and you know, stabilizers and balance that I never, yeah. Never got, gave myself, you know. But also some things do click easier for people. We can both pick up something. So brand new, like snowboarding was one of them, or golf was another one a couple years ago that we've never tried before. And he can just watch somebody else do it and be like, oh, I need to do it. And he can see it and it translates in his brain what the muscles need to be doing and it just synchronize. Whereas I need to repeat that 200 times before it starts to make sense. And that
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:23:29</time>
makes sense.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:23:29</time>
Yeah. I've kind of always been that way where it just never clicked for me the way I saw sports click for other people, even as like a young kid on rec teams and even just like playing for fun. Like I just see other people getting it faster. And as a while, like for a while as a kid, this idea was like, people are gonna be frustrated with how slow I am, how slow I learn, how long I stay bad. So it's a courtesy to just take myself out of this. And so I think for a while as a kid, it was like, I just like the narrative was, I am not athletic. I do not belong here. I cannot do this. This is not my thing. And then that became such a big part of my identity. So then all through high school and PE was just like, I don't do this. I'm not even gonna try. I know I'm gonna be bad at it, so I'm not gonna try. This isn't my thing, focus elsewhere. And that just was the narrative for so long.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:24:18</time>
Which would you say came first, your. Lack of interest in participating in these more athletic activities or your fear or of rejection or maybe, um, feeling self-conscious about your athletic abilities? Or did they feed each other?
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:24:42</time>
Uh, they definitely fed each other. Um, I also didn't grow up in a family that was super into sports too much. Mm-hmm. We didn't follow them or, you know, other than like play catch in the park. There wasn't a huge emphasis on sports. It was just like, we should put our kids in sports 'cause that's good, you know, discipline and comradery and physical activity and, um, because it wasn't easy right away, I didn't like it. I don't think I ever liked having to do something that I wasn't good at. Ah. Which is so interesting because now I think I'm so obsessed with. Overcoming something where if it's not easy, I'm like, why not? I can control this. I can fix this. Yeah. I can learn this. And I like that challenge. Um, and that came with age and time and maybe just maturity growing up of being like, if I, of course, I'm not gonna be good at anything the first time. Like, and that's, that's fun. That's a fun journey. Like choosing to think of it as fun. Like it's hard, but that's the joy is watching yourself grow. I didn't have that as much as a kid. I enjoyed doing things that were easier and that felt like, I felt like if it was a natural talent, it was for me. And if it wasn't a natural talent, it's not for me. And I think I just kept repeating that to myself and for decades, kept myself from ever making meaningful progress. 'cause I was like, well, if it's not a natural talent, then I'll just never be able to do it. And it was partially to defend myself and protect myself, but also partially just this narrative that kept me from believing I was capable, which I think I was all along. Absolutely. And I hate that it took me so long to realize that.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:26:16</time>
Yeah, no, absolutely. I, I mean, honestly, in my years of working in fitness spaces and working, um, with kids of all ages, like ages zero to 16 or older in different athletic spaces, whether it's camps, whether it's classes, um, gym classes, whether it's dance classes, I fully believe that anyone is capable at any age. But it all comes down to mindset. Mindset. Mm-hmm. Is the number one most important thing when it comes to kind of defining what your physical story looks like, or what your physical goals look like. Um, and
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:27:08</time>
totally.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:27:09</time>
Where is your glass ceiling? Um. Mm-hmm. Where can you smash through the glass ceiling? Where can you start seeing mm-hmm. What's beyond whatever roof you're putting on top of your goals?
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:27:22</time>
Yeah. And because I know there's still gonna be challenges, right? Yeah. I am not going to heal from this and get back out there and suddenly be good. I'm not. I'm gonna fall again. Hopefully not break anything again soon.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:27:33</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:27:34</time>
But like that's, that risk is never gonna go away, you know, it's not, you know, so, but I think I'm less bothered by the idea of knowing that there is still a learning curve. It is still gonna be a challenge. I am still going to be the slowest down the mountain, and I'm still going to be the last person to pick up a new technique and the first person to fall trying it. Like that's just, and that's like every, I think sport that I pursue or enjoy everything is at such a recreational level. 'cause that's all I can do. But that's not a reason to not try and not get better and not believe that I can work at it. Yeah. Like that's not enough to keep me out of it anymore. And I like that. I don't know where it came from. It feels like it came on all of a sudden, but I think it was years of maturity and slow self-assurance to be like, I can do this and if I can't, so what? So what if I get hurt again? Or, you know, I am the slowest or the last or whatever. Like that doesn't need to stop you from doing something fun and being proud of what meaningful progress you can make. Because I mean, I cannot emphasize this enough. I am not an athlete, but I don't have to keep repeating to myself that I can never try or I can never get better or I can never make meaningful progress and have fun doing it.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:28:50</time>
That idea of, um, wanting to be good at something the first time because there are so many things that you are naturally good at and getting kind of frustrated or, uh, put off if you're not immediately good at something. That's something that resonates so hard for me.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:29:10</time>
Mm-hmm.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:29:11</time>
Um. And I think my parents could definitely support me on that. Um, yeah, it, it is hard to kind of cultivate that mindset of it's okay that it's hard, and then that just means that I'm gonna have to work to get to the level that I want to be, or push beyond the level that even I think I can achieve at the top. Um, I wanna say when I started doing theater, because
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:29:47</time>
mm-hmm.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:29:48</time>
I decided I wanted to be Shirley Temple and I wanted to be in movies and on Broadway, truly in terms of athleticism, but I'm, but more generally, you said that you're a lifelong learner. When did learning become something that. Was more of a task and less of an opportunity to become more full of knowledge in an easy manner.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:30:19</time>
Um, I remember it exactly, it was in 10th grade mm-hmm. When I took AP European history. Mm. Which I thought I had no business being in that class. I said, I, I'm fine in school. I'm not great. I have no, I was so intimidated by the idea of taking like an advanced placement course. I said, I don't belong here. Um, somebody reconci there was guidance counseling. I think my mom pushed me into it too. She's like, it's good to challenge yourself. And I was like,
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:30:45</time>
yeah.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:30:46</time>
And I just walked in that room feeling so small and so intimidated and thinking I do not belong here. And the teacher invested in me so well, his name was Mr. Welch, and he shout out Mr. Welch, shout out Mr. Welch. He was so inspiring and he made me fall in love with the subject and with the idea of. I think learning, not just to pull a grade or pass a test. Mm-hmm. But the idea of bettering your whole self by studying something, by absorbing knowledge and letting that impact the way we go through life.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:31:21</time>
Mm-hmm.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:31:22</time>
And I love that class. I love that class so much. And I even more, I think I loved coming out of it, thinking I could do this again. And so then the next year I would take two AP classes and then three or four the next year. And just that, the confidence it gave me to say, this sounded really hard, but I did it and I got it. And I loved that. And that set me on a track that I think gave me a sense of confidence in not the abilities I had at that moment, but the abilities I could have if I let myself try and to give myself the grace to try and say, maybe it is gonna be really hard, but. I think I love the person who gets back up after they fall at the end of this, and that looked really cool.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:32:09</time>
Is that the first time you had to study for a class?
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:32:16</time>
Yes. And part of that came from the fear of, I'm going to have to study because this is going to be hard and I am going to fail if I don't. Yeah. But then I realized that like it kind of clicked and I kind of enjoyed it and I didn't need to like, it wasn't toil the whole time. Yeah. You know, for sure. But it was the first time I thought, I, I am in a position where I really might fail. I really don't think I can do this. I'm going to have to work at it. Yeah. But then the work wasn't as like terrible as I imagined it to be. It was hard, but it was a kind of hard, that felt good.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:32:48</time>
When you went to undergrad, did you feel as though beyond this experience that happened in 10th grade in your uh, AP European history class, did you feel. Like your world opened up more, that you were more amenable to trying new things, not athletic things, maybe not sportsy things, maybe, but other things that help to open your world more, feed your learning hunger, um, in a different way beyond academia.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:33:23</time>
Mm-hmm. Well, first I did take a karate class.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:33:26</time>
Wow. What type of karate
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:33:29</time>
they had, um, for like a one credit, um, like a self-defense course,
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:33:34</time>
Uhhuh.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:33:36</time>
And I said, let's do it. Yeah. So we did that. It was on the, um, like campus field, the multipurpose athletic field, uh, which is like right in the center of campus. And so you're out there with a group of 50 people going, Hey, hey. Yeah, I'm, and it was like on like the walk path in between the cafeteria and my freshman dorm. And so like my friends would walk past and be like, yeah, Emma. And you're like, I just wanna die. I almost dropped that class. I did almost drop that class. 'cause I was like, oh my God, we stuck it through. Yeah, we stuck it through. Um, so I did try one athletic thing in college.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:34:13</time>
I love that for you.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:34:15</time>
Oh my God.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:34:15</time>
And I'm glad you stuck it through. Wow. But
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:34:18</time>
yeah, me too. Because if I had dropped that, I would've been one unit short graduation and I would've rude the day. Yes. So we got through. Um, so it was fun. It was a learning experience and that was again, one of those things where I did really wanna quit and I didn't. And even though I hated it the whole semester, I really loved the girl at the end of the semester that didn't quit. The girl that made it through, the girl that showed up every day, even though she hated it and she really didn't want to. Yeah. And that was the feeling that I kept chasing, I think was, you know, that part. Um, so to a degree achievement is yes. Incredible. Yeah. Yes. That was, I think what really hooked me more than any avenue specifically. Um, so to a degree I did feel sort of confident and empowered to try new things and to put myself out there and make my life this fuller, richer experience. Great. But also I still felt like I was very conservative in my risk taking. Um, being in college was a big deal for me. I was a first generation college student. My parents didn't go. And so it was like this big deal to like get me to college and I knew they were so proud of me and there's a lot of pressure. I'm an eldest daughter. Okay. So there's just always that pressure to like not let people down and do things well and maintain the sense of control and stability. So that's, that's I think where a lot of this maybe comes from. Mm-hmm.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:35:40</time>
Definitely.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:35:40</time>
There was just as an oldest
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:35:42</time>
daughter, another out daughter who, uh, I would say she says some similar things, but Yeah. Uhhuh.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:35:51</time>
Yeah, because some people are like, it's college, have fun. And you're like, to a degree, I have stability to maintain. And so there was always that in the back of my head, I think a little bit where it was like, this is a huge deal. This is a big experience. Don't blow it. Don't mess it up. Like I kind of kept feeling like I only have one chance to get this right. And so there was, yes, this, you know. I am stronger than I ever knew I was. I am more capable. I am an adult. Let's explore this richness. But at the same time, it was like, but also be careful and don't do anything stupid and don't take risks. And this is very important that we're here. We need to stay here and protect all of this. And so yes and no in some degree, I think. Um, but maybe that's where sort of this feeling is coming now as an adult is now, you know, I am out of school. You know, all the things I was working towards back then. I have now, I have checked off so many other things on that list. I have achieved so many goals, including the sense of stability where now I think, I think I can take, I can allow myself to take those risks and to be mediocre at things for fun. And it doesn't feel like I have that same, you know, I think like pressure to maintain that I did, you know, 10 and 15 years ago. Yeah. So maybe that's kind of where it started to change. But it's something that I think. Adapted slowly over time, little by little, every little challenge overcome, kind of stacked up a little. We're like, okay, well we can, we can try a little harder next time. But I mean, I just, in general, there's just that burden I think of there's so much pressure to perform, like maintain or keep the stability. Like I, I've got it. We're in a good place now. So it's like, let's have fun. It's okay. It's okay if we take risks. It's okay if we're bad at things. We can try new things. And I think, I think that comes with, that's the maturity of age too, where you're like, I don't have anyone to impress. It's okay if people don't agree with it or they don't like it or they don't get it. That doesn't bother me the way that I think it bothered all of us growing up a little bit.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:37:55</time>
Definitely. I mean, even watching like a movie about high school still gives me anxiety or middle school. Mm-hmm. All those feelings, they just kind of come right back. It's like sense memory for an experie. Experiencing somebody else. Having the experience can
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:38:12</time>
Yeah. Contribute
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:38:12</time>
to that sense of memory.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:38:14</time>
I would love to go back in time to younger Emma, and be like, you can relax a little bit. You're doing great. It's okay.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:38:20</time>
Great, sweetie.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:38:21</time>
It's fine. Yeah. You're doing amazing, sweetie.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:38:24</time>
Yeah. Aw. No, and I, I don't think you're alone in that. I think there are so many of us. Mm-hmm. That if we could write a letter to our younger selves, I think there's so many, so many of us would say it's okay.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:38:40</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:38:41</time>
Just chill.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:38:42</time>
It's
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:38:42</time>
not
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:38:42</time>
that deep.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:38:43</time>
It's not that deep. You're
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:38:44</time>
doing all right. It's
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:38:45</time>
that deep. It's never that deep. Okay, so I wanna go a little bit into this risk taking part of you, or excuse me. Mm-hmm. This lack of risk taking part of you. What would you say the riskiest thing you did before age? 22 was
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:39:10</time>
the riskiest. Um, I got married at 22 girl.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:39:15</time>
That's it.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:39:16</time>
So statistically that's it.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:39:18</time>
Yes. Yes. That's pretty
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:39:22</time>
risky. That's
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:39:23</time>
it. Did you feel like you were taking a risk at the
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:39:25</time>
time? Not at all. Not at all. It felt like the easiest decision ever. Aw. Um, I think at 22, I think I, I felt like I, I mean, I knew I didn't know everything, but I felt like I knew everything I needed to know. I had maybe so much misplaced self-confidence. Um, but it was, it was coming out of college, right. I graduated a year early, so I graduated at 21. Mm-hmm. And I had moved outta state and I got my own apartment and I got my own job and was supporting myself financially at a time when most of my friends were still going through school. And so there was a part of me that was like, I can do anything. Like, I'm awesome. Like I pay rent, you know? So like there was so much new that I was figuring out and doing okay at that. There was a lot of confidence there. Um, but you know, you meet someone that makes life feel so safe and that makes you feel like you can do anything with that partnership that you've got that stability and that backing and that encouragement. Like having someone believe in you is everything, but having someone that helps you believe in yourself, you're invincible. And that was how I felt at 22.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:40:35</time>
That is.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:40:35</time>
And so I said, let's get married. What could go wrong? This is gonna be great.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:40:39</time>
This, and you guys are still married?
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:40:41</time>
We are. Yeah. You're celebrating nine years this June.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:40:44</time>
That's amazing.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:40:45</time>
Mm-hmm. And
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:40:46</time>
truly I think that speaks so highly, not just of you and your obviously healthy relationship at the time, at age 22, but that speaks so highly of him. Everything you just said that he makes you. Feel safe, and he helps you to believe in yourself beyond just believing in you. Like that's,
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:41:10</time>
mm-hmm.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:41:10</time>
I mean, that's such a mature dynamic to have mature, romantic dynamic to have so young.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:41:19</time>
Yeah. In a sense. We definitely did grow up together, you know? I mean, we felt so confident at the age we were, but we felt that every year, you know, I think it was an, it was us getting older that we were like, oh no. Now we're just starting to learn. Yeah. Who let us make these big decisions as literal children, you know? Yeah. But at the time, you couldn't have said anything to make me change my mind. You could not have convinced me that we were too young or we weren't ready, you know? Totally. Whatever. It was just like, you don't know anything. Of course we've got this like, do you know me? I can do, I I did AP euro. I can do anything.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:41:54</time>
Yes. Yeah, no, absolutely.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:41:58</time>
You know, I think every time you learn something you can look back on your six months younger self and be like, oh no. That version of me was so naive to, you know, this thing that I know now or they didn't have this experience. I'm so much stronger now and I think, you know, I've just come to so embrace that where it's like, I don't ever let myself feel like I'm at that level because I'm always like, in six months that version of me is gonna look back so lovingly and so sweet at this version of me saying, Aw, she little baby she thought, she thought she knew. You know? Yeah. So it's just like I, you just having that grace to be like, yes, like me today is smarter than me yesterday, but I'm gonna continue to be smarter and stronger tomorrow. And like embracing that change and that evolution and I anticipating it too.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:42:41</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:42:42</time>
And not letting it make me feel incapable today. But also like doesn't ever let me rest on my laurels either. That like there's more to learn. Yeah. And Future me is gonna teach me something and I just gotta be like ready for, to receive whatever that is. It's kind
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:42:53</time>
of, are you excited to meet that future? You always is. Always that something you just think about? Like, oh, I can't wait to see me. If this is me today, I cannot wait to see me and meet me six months from now.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:43:09</time>
Yeah. I think like every five years I like to sit down with a list of goals and be like, what do I wanna achieve in the next five years? Who do I want to be in five years? When I think of me in five years, who is she? What is she doing? What's she like? And trying to like physically write them down, you know? 'cause then they stick in my brain better. And then as I achieve them, like check 'em off or make some notes or adjustments or whatever. Well, I like that idea because I can, like, I have so much love for my younger self, you know, for everything. She was trying everything. She was afraid of everything she wanted and maybe even wouldn't let herself voice, you know? But you thinking that and being like, you know, I wanna keep nurturing that.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:43:46</time>
You know
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:43:46</time>
it, it's so much to like encourage yourself sometimes and to believe in yourself. And trying to do that and trying to keep pace with that, I think is really healthy because it's something that I think it's important to look forward to meeting your future self because then you're taking care of that today and you're doing things today that puts you on a path and stack up and add to whoever that person's going to be, you know? Yeah. And
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:44:09</time>
so
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:44:10</time>
I try to think of that way of how can I contribute to whatever this future version of myself I want, but not just for me, for the other people in my life too. You know? Yeah. How can I be a better wife, a better friend, a better family member, a better employee or coworker? Like all these things matter. And when you realize like everything you do is giving to the people around you, I think that makes life so much richer. If you're just trying to go and like feed your own happiness, like you're chasing a moving target. But when you can like translate that to a contribution, like I find a lot of fulfillment in that. And then it gives yourself grace too, you know?
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:44:43</time>
Yeah. I mean, that's so beautiful and so selfless of you and also very special of you. I'd say like yes, there is a lot of maturity that comes with age and experience, but in that maturity that doesn't necessarily mean that there is a decrease. Doesn't necessarily mean it could mean, but in general doesn't necessarily mean that we are less selfish and more selfless. Um, and I think that there's nothing wrong with being selfish as long as it's a healthy selfishness, like you're building and maintaining boundaries that keep you safe. But I think that there's something to be said for letting go of. The you centricity of it all. And I think that's something that's really natural to a lot of us in maybe our early twenties, maybe mid twenties, maybe even late twenties. Um, but really centering ourselves in our lives and our experiences, which totally, it's your life, but finding okay this or centering someone else instead of me brings me that same level of fulfillment and joy. I think that's, that's beautiful and there's a lot of maturity there, so thank
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:46:13</time>
you. Yeah. I think when you. Yeah, of course. I mean, when we think about identity, it's so easily becomes about I, right, who am I? Who am I to me? How do I make myself proud? Um, but there's, there's a really important other half to that question. That identity is also who you are to other people. Not that you should let people tell you who you are, but you should think about who other people, I think to a degree, perceive you to be because who you are so much bigger than you where it's not worth anything If you think you're so great, but nobody else would say that back because you aren't investing in other people. You know, like there's, there's so much value in contribution, I think is what I'm trying to say. And considering that as part of your identity, I think is a really important second half of the question is not who am I for me, but who am I for the people in my life that I love and that are that community for me?
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:47:05</time>
Well, our relationships are mm-hmm. Such a core, uh, essential part of our identity and how those relationships. Definitely evolve over time. Yeah. Um, for better or worse,
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:47:19</time>
yeah.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:47:19</time>
Definitely contribute to who we are and not just who we are from the outside perception, but who we are, or excuse me. Not just who we are from the outside, but how we perceive ourselves. Yeah. Because where do we see ourselves in each of those relationships? What do those relationships mean to us? What do they say about who we are as individuals? The fact that you are having maybe having a relationship, maybe the fact that you have ended a relationship mm-hmm. Romantic or platonic, familial or acquaintanceship, whatever, maybe professional. Um, what is that saying about you and what is that saying about your evolution and your growth? Yeah. Into. This next version of yourself. No, I think that's so true. Okay. So something I wanna ask you, just because we just talked about how our relationships inform our identity in so many different ways. Do you think that the way that you and your husband's relationship has grown and evolved, has contributed to you having the confidence and beyond confidence, the desire to try these new quote unquote risks or these new activities, these, and pursue things that you wouldn't have previously?
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:48:50</time>
Absolutely. Completely, yes. Um, yes. It's one thing to motivate yourself. It's another person to like be a sounding board and affirm that, right? Yeah. Especially when it's someone that you know is such a trusted relationship. You know, friends can hype you up all day long. You know, family can hype, you can have other people hyping you up, but there's something about the intimacy of that relationship. Someone that knows you so well, to really be like, yeah, because if I couldn't do something, he'd be the first to let me know. He'd be like, honey, this isn't your gift. You know? Like he's very musical, right? So we'll be singing along in the car and he'll be like, that's not your part.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:49:26</time>
He did theater, right?
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:49:28</time>
Yes. He did
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:49:28</time>
theater in Hawaii
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:49:29</time>
yet, yes, he did theater, he did sports, he did everything. He is a natural talent for everything. I lack, but you know what? I'm a better seller.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:49:36</time>
Lack you just are different.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:49:38</time>
Haven't developed. Haven't developed yet. And I think that's
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:49:42</time>
time. Honestly. You've been so busy with like everything else, you know
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:49:47</time>
everything. But I mean, it's easy to make time for things that are fun, right? Yeah. But I mean, that's something that, a part of it is, you know, we're, so, we're both the oldest like siblings in our family. He comes from a much bigger family. So the oldest sibling thing is a little bit stronger, but I'm the oldest daughter and nothing trumps that. Right? Yeah. And so we are both, I think, so competitive, um, with ourselves, with each other. And so there is this desire that when he is like effortlessly good at something, I hate that. And I can't take him down. So I just gotta try to keep up. And I think that's what kept me, you know, screaming and crying, but standing back up on a snowboard every time, 'cause you're like, I gotta catch up. Like, I am not the loser that sits off to the side, you know, accepting defeat. I don't wanna be that person. I don't wanna be that person. And I don't think he would let me either. Like he sees a capability in me that says like, you've got this, like you can do this. Like, it may be a longer journey and it may take you more time, but. That's not a no, that's not an incapability. Right. And he is that voice for me when I can't be that for myself when I'm sitting there like, it'll never happen. I'll never get it. It's game over. He's like, whatcha are you talking about? And he's, he has the kind of, I think, tough love I respond to really well. Mm-hmm.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:51:07</time>
Where
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:51:07</time>
he's just like, shut up. Stop. Stop. Is that is not true. Like, stop. And you're like, Ooh, okay, fine. You're right. Yeah. And then you go and you do it and you get it right. And you're like, thank you. You're right. I am
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:51:20</time>
the type
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:51:20</time>
of person, I respond well to that.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:51:22</time>
Yeah. I crave that in a a, an activity setting and like a mm-hmm. My feeling setting. Don't give me tough laugh. I don't want that. I just want love. I've already given myself the tough stuff in my brain.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:51:36</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:51:36</time>
Okay. So you say that you guys are both oldest children, you're both very competitive. Yes.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:51:41</time>
I love,
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:51:42</time>
I mean, as a competitive oldest daughter, I recognize competition. I love competition. A lot of times though, I find that I can, you know, kind of really let out that competitive energy in athletics and sports and things.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:52:02</time>
Mm-hmm.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:52:04</time>
Did you not feel as though you had the skillset to utilize or to channel that competitive energy in athletics growing up or in physicality?
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:52:22</time>
Not at all. But also I, I don't think I was super competitive as a kid. I didn't have, I, as a kid, I was just like, I was annoyed by people that were competitive. 'cause I was like, who cares if we get it right? Let's, like, we're just having fun. And a lot of that came from my parents. I came from a do your best but just have fun family. Where it was like we are just, if we're in this to have a good time. Like do your best but don't stress yourself out about it too hard. Wow. And so when we would they like be at an event where there is a game or for the brief blip that I was in team sports, I did really well in tennis. Actually in middle school I liked tennis because it was an individual sport. You're competitive with yourself, you're not on a team. But I couldn't stand that like athletic competitiveness of mastering a skill I had. And maybe it's just 'cause that wasn't my outlet. And that's certainly like, certainly not the time, not the play, not my thing. But I had no like drive to master anything growing up. And I think it took a long time to find something that I loved enough that I wanted to put that effort in, that I cared about enough. Um, also to like, like explore what I love, what gives me life, like find a sense of passion that took years, I think to find. And until I did, you could not talk me into doing anything harder than I wanted to. When I was done, I was done and there was no way. So there really wasn't any aggression to channel, there wasn't any competitiveness to need to put somewhere. It was just completely undeveloped for so many years.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:53:54</time>
What developed it?
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:53:56</time>
That's a good question. That's a good question. Um, it definitely like it. This, it started to come in high school. I think when I realized that I was pretty good at writing. Uh, my mom will tell you that teachers noticed that younger, but to me it was just like that was the assignment and I did it. If I did it better than everyone, like that's their problem. I don't know what to tell you. And it wasn't till high school that I was like, no, I really enjoy this. Like there's a voice in here that I have fun creatively putting together. And I think once I realized that was a bit of a more natural. Talent. That was something that came easier to me, that teachers started validating this was really good. Can I use this as an example? Then I was like, this is my thing. I'm, I love this and I'm effortlessly good at it. So then there started to become this thing that I was like paying attention to other writers that I liked and why I liked it, and what kind of writing maybe I would want to do, and what could I do at home in my free time that would be fun and not just an assignment. And so that kind of became something that I think I really loved and started to develop a natural talent for and feel competitive with myself for. Mm-hmm.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:55:02</time>
And
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:55:02</time>
it started to develop in high school, and then I don't think I knew what to do with it or where to go with it because I was like, well, if you don't wanna be a novelist, writing is a useless skill and that's really wrong. Yeah. I have a great career now writing. I do wonderful things with something that I love, which is beautiful and fulfilling and I'm so grateful for. But it took a long time to get there and to see a path and to see a use for it. Where for a while it was just like, I like this and that's my thing, and I'm not good at anything else, and that's okay. And I think I sat in that place for a long time.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:55:31</time>
Wow. Okay. So did you not think that you had other natural talents as a child or before?
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:55:39</time>
At this point, I, not really. No, not really. 'cause like when you're in school, it's like you can do music or you can dance, or you can do sports. And because I didn't do any of those things, I was like, well, don't fit in any of those boxes. Those are the only natural talent boxes available. And so we would go to like friends' dance recitals or friends' competitions or championships, and you're always there cheering them on. And that was just the role I played for so many years. And I think that was just it. I just, I didn't think about it too much beyond that for so long.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:56:12</time>
Wow. I mean, I think you're right. I think that's true as a kid. Like of course there's a very, we all have a very limited view of the world as a child. And I think that's kind of what we are exposed to in terms of what a talent is beyond the classroom. Um, yeah. Did you have any extracurricular activities that you did in elementary school, middle school, high school?
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:56:42</time>
I tried everything. Um, and this was my mom really like pushing us to try things and do things. Yeah. So I mean, I tried piano lessons for a while. I played guitar. Um, I did some karate in middle school.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:56:56</time>
Amazing. I,
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:56:57</time>
I didn't choose it. It was chosen for me, but it was fun. You know, I tried tennis, I tried volleyball, I did cooking classes and different kinds of art classes. And we, we did a lot of stuff. I did theater tech in high school. That was really fun. Nice. Yeah. But everything was just this like surface level, like cool. It just, none of it clicked for me that I would see the way it clicking for my peers that I would do something and be like, like I was in like a, I was in four H, which I hated. We, I was in like a robotics class. I don't even know. I think mom was just like going through the community catalog and being like, there's something to do.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:57:32</time>
Wow.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:57:33</time>
Everybody was,
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:57:34</time>
was into robotics in high school.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:57:37</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:57:38</time>
Some robotics club.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:57:39</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:57:39</time>
That's cool though. That's such a cool skill.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:57:43</time>
I mean, I wouldn't say it was a skill I gained. I think I sat in the back with my arms crossed and I'm like, why am I here? What am I doing? Oh my God. I'm like 11. I have no say in any of this. I'm just like here. And I'm like, what time is my mom coming? Like why am I here? But it was, it was a thing. It was a thing to do. It was, you know, but you see these things click for other people sometimes so quickly and so young and you're just like. So you kind of, I think for a while I felt like I was shopping for a pursuit. Like I think for a while I felt like I was looking for an identity. 'cause everyone, you know, when you're in grade school, whatever your extracurricular is, is your identity. You are a soccer player, you are a singer, you are a cera assist. You know, like there's this thing. And when you don't have that thing, you're just like, well, I don't even know what my identity is, I just know what I'm not.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:58:30</time>
Right.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:58:31</time>
And that's where things started to form this narrative of, I am not musically inclined, I am not naturally athletic, I am not able to do these things. Yeah. And I think I always believed if I really wanted to, I could, but I didn't want to. And therefore there was no drive.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:58:48</time>
Right.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:58:48</time>
And
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:58:51</time>
yeah,
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>00:58:51</time>
that creates a, that creates a narrative and an identity. And I sat in that for too long.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>00:58:56</time>
That's interesting that you say, say that as a kid you are. Part of your identity or your identity is defined by your extracurriculars. I think that's absolutely true. Um, your extracurriculars and your relationships to your peers as well as to your superiors, um mm-hmm. Your teachers, your parents, et cetera. Um, and also I think weirdly maybe by the media you consume at that time. Yeah. Um, whether that be music or tv or what books are you reading, because that's also to like maybe, um, pathway to maybe different fandoms, maybe different communities where you can have, form other relationships and form different, you know, channels of your identity. Mm-hmm. That's, I think that's a very good point. And then of course, as we get older, we continue to define our relationships by. Our jobs, unfortunately, which of course we're trying to go against that right now and break that mold. Um, in talking about the totality of identity here. Mm-hmm. Um, so when did you feel like you, you know, had a hobby or a special interest that you felt defined you in your identity, kind of in line with the way that you see you saw your peers defining their identity?
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:00:39</time>
Um, I think that came more recent, I think, than earlier. Um, something that I think slowly formed and slowly built over time by slowly peeling away what I knew I was not. And for a while it was maybe not super healthy, like telling myself I wasn't something that I couldn't do. It was kind of like after, like in college and stuff, you're exposed to so much more of life and so many more career options. And thinking about what I know I didn't want to do was a bit easier than looking at the entire job market and society and deciding what I did want to do and maybe who I was within that. Um, 'cause like one thing too, like so many people know that they wanna be a mom really young. And I, I never had that, you know, I think we'd love kids someday, but we've been saying someday for 10 years, you know, and there's no pressure to move. And it's like, so that was another hard thing is that you see people like finding an identity really easily in that or in, you know, a job. Um, and so for me it took a long time of understanding who I wasn't before I could understand who I was. Hmm. And I think I changed careers a few times in my early twenties right after school, um, before I could finally figure out, um, I think what I wanted to do. But that took, for me, that was like reading. Reading helped a lot. Reading exposes you to other worlds real and fictional to authors, to perspectives. And that kind of, I think helped me navigate a bit about you get inside someone's head when you read a book, right? Whether it's a character or the author, but it puts you literally in someone else's shoes and you see the world through that lens. And I read a, I continue, I do still, I read a ton in my twenties and that gave me, um, a good window into other perspectives and other experiences that I would never have otherwise. And I think that's where I really, I loved this idea. Um, for a while of be like being a journalist, I was like, I wanna be someone that writes, I wanna report, I wanna be boots on the ground. I wanna talk to people, I wanna give a voice to people. Mm-hmm. I want to give that perspective. Um. Which is what led me to the graduate program I'm in now in journalism. And then through that program, further refined, uh, I don't wanna do freelance journalism because I am someone that likes stability, right? I am someone that needs to create a sense of security for myself. I need a plan B and CI sleep really well at night when I feel like I am in control and I have structure.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:03:04</time>
Totally.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:03:05</time>
And so, and that helped define things a little bit further as, okay, I wanna be a writer, but I wanna be a writer, um, on salary with some benefits. So if I were to break my arm in a freak accident, I don't have to worry about that as much as, you know, if I were working freelance or part-time or any of these other scrappier jobs, that for a while I thought sounded freeing. I thought that was, that was freedom and that was what I wanted. And you know, I mean, it's beautiful to have the opportunity in life to get to try certain things and explore different avenues and dabble in certain hobbies or careers and. It's great to figure out what you don't like. Sometimes the people you disagree with are the most informative, most impactful, most shaping people in our lives.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:03:48</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:03:48</time>
And I, I invite those conversations. I enjoy sitting down and silently just disagreeing with people. Not because, you know, and like, not to say that I'm, I'm not, I don't start a fight. I will politely nod along the whole time like, you're crazy. Never say it like, great. But like, I enjoy those perspective. 'cause it challenges what I think I know and what I think I believe. And every time you learn something new and that's important. And so all these things I think compile this idea of who am I? Not just what do I do, but who am I in that? And it's something that I think took many years to shape, but it's also, it's continuing to shape. So whatever answer I give you today might change in a year or two.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:04:32</time>
I love that. And I agree wholeheartedly. Oh my gosh, I love. Love reading and hearing and having conversations, uh, with people with dissenting opinions, dissenting beliefs. Mm-hmm. Um, does it scare me sometimes? Yes. Does it frustrate me sometimes? Yes. But it does help me to feel more confident in what I'm feeling or to might poke holes in what I believe I feel and who I believe I am in relation to whatever the topic is. So I think that is a really solid way of looking at things and yeah. And, you know, evolution, life is so malleable. Like mm-hmm. Everything changes and
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:05:22</time>
nothing is that serious. Nothing is that permanent. One door closes, another opens.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:05:29</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:05:29</time>
Take it, take it seriously. But it isn't that serious.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:05:34</time>
Right. Yeah. No, I, I wholeheartedly, wholeheartedly agree with that. No, I feel, and I have friends who constantly tell me this, that I have lived so many lives and I, you have like, I have lived so many lives.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:05:51</time>
You have so many stories on a different era. It's like a lore drop every time. You're like, one time, and I'm like, yes.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:05:58</time>
Well, I could do an ERAS tour and it would just be me talking about that.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:06:04</time>
It's something you learned at every era.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:06:06</time>
Yes.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:06:06</time>
And a costume for each one.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:06:08</time>
Yes. Yes.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:06:09</time>
That's your one man show. I'm buying tickets. Yes, yes,
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:06:14</time>
yes. 40 years of eras.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:06:16</time>
Oh my God. I'm there. I'm there.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:06:19</time>
But I also feel like you have so many eras. So let's, let's go to your current era. You,
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:06:24</time>
yes.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:06:24</time>
You got us there. Your current era, you're mm-hmm. Um, in this journalism graduate program, and you are working as a journalist and you're a lifelong learner. So let's start there. When did you feel like you felt confident and comfortable in adopting this lifelong learner moniker for yourself?
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:06:51</time>
I mean, it wasn't a question. There was no other choice for me. It's, you know, it wasn't something, I don't think I picked, I think it was just always there gnawing at me. And then when I finally gave it words, there was this piece that was like, that's what that is. Mm-hmm. That's this, this hunger that it's not ever to master maybe one thing, but to understand everything. Whether that's, and I think that's what I loved about journalism is you get to sit down with people anywhere, anyone doing anything, and be like, what's it like to run a preschool, to own a butcher shop, to be an expat? And you get to have these incredible conversations with people and learn from them. And for just a minute to get a glimpse into that life. And I love that. Yeah. And that really satisfied this, you know, hunger to learn. You can read all the books, you know, but after a while I was like, I wanna write my own, you know, not book necessarily, but like, story like I, right. I want to be the one gathering these stories. Yeah. Because I just am so excited about hearing other people's, you know, perspectives. I think, you know, where are you and how did you get there? And people are excited to talk about that when you sit down and ask them, people are usually really excited to talk about that. And that's cool. And that forms a connection. And that's beautiful. I love that. And it makes life so rich.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:08:13</time>
Journalism is so beautiful in that way. It's, it's storytelling, but it's telling stories of. Of the world and whatever way you wanna look at it, it's mm-hmm. Um, gathering different perspectives and then putting that on display for the world or an audience to see. So I do wanna go into how you got to an Ivy League school. Um, so that's where you're in the journalism program and with me Yes. Um, at Harvard Extension School. So talk to me about why Harvard? How did you find the school
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:08:56</time>
during the pandemic? Um, you know, there was so much rich content online. All of a sudden people are just like releasing so many things. Um, touring national parks and aquarium webcams and I audited a class from Harvard, um, like an intro to architecture class. They had released like the video series of lectures, and it was just kind of like an online at Jerome Pace. Partake in this lecture, in this class, you can download the course materials, whatever. And I was like, that sounds like fun. That's not kind of fun. And so I signed myself up for this class and I audit this class on architecture and I've, I think I've always loved architecture. I don't have the skillset for it, but I have the utmost respect for it, which is what got me into, into that industry ultimately was I was just like, what you do is beautiful. How can I be a part of it? You know?
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:09:44</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:09:45</time>
Um, and so I, so I think taking that class, I knew I always wanted to go for a master's degree that was always on the docket for me, was just a question of when it made sense. Totally. And I wanted to be in a career that it would directly benefit and would help me pay for it. I wasn't gonna just go take out more student loans and hope somebody would pick me up, you know? And um, so it was really cool that. To take this kinda lecture series from Harvard to see that they had online classes. This was a recorded lecture, so I was like, are there more? Are there entire programs? And at first I was kind of just finding some certificate programs, but it was kind of just in the back of my head that there could be a great opportunity to be a part of a school that I maybe never would've had the chance to be a part of on campus full time. And think about maybe an online program would look like somewhere like that. Some I wanted a school that challenged me. That was the bottom line is because I'm a glutton for pain as we've, as we discussed. Yes. And if I'm not hurting, I'm not having fun. And I wanted something that was gonna challenge me. I wanted to be pushed and I wanted to come out greater. And that's because I did it in 10th grade and all throughout high school and all throughout college. And I was like, you know what I get, I'm not gonna just, I don't, no one needs a master's degree in journalism. No one needs that. I'm not just gonna go somewhere to get it done quickly and easily. It has cheap as possible and get out. It's not worth anything. Right. So I wanted somewhere that was going to absolutely challenge me to give me a rich experience. I wanted a rigorous academic experience and I wanted a strong alumni association. I wanted something that was going to be large. I wanted be part of a bigger legacy. I wanted to feel a part of something. Right. And so that had me right away looking at just bigger schools, not necessarily Ivy League schools, but bigger schools. Mm-hmm. And there was a couple programs, um, a school in Colorado I really liked. Um, I think Syracuse and New York was one I looked at too. And then Harvard Extension was Feed and me ads. Um, this was like 20, 24, I think. Okay. They're just, you know, so they're, they're just like, I, you know, you Google a couple schools and then the ads are everywhere and they're in your inbox. And so you had a great, had some options. But I was looking at these few different journalism programs and so many schools, especially like online programs with schools. 'cause I knew like, we live in Colorado, I'm not willing to move, we're not going to move. We have a life here. Mm-hmm. So narrowing itches down to online eliminated a lot. So it gave me a reasonable number to look at. And so many of them focused on broadcast journalism, which is not what I wanna do. I do not wanna sit in a newsroom. I do not wanna write headlines. I, and I think too, there was this bit of foresight that like traditional newsroom journalism is not the journalism of tomorrow. That's not where the industry is going. And that is not what I want to pigeonhole myself into. Um, and also it's just, it's so often I'm so critical of, you know, sometimes newsroom journalism, but it's so profit driven these days. Don't get me on my soapbox, but I've got a soapbox. And these big companies own these newsrooms and they're feeding you headlines that keep you clicking longer so they can serve you more ads. And it's, that's not, that's not my kind of, and I think at this time, so much of the media I enjoyed reading. Was these really beautiful stories written in this perspective of, you know, uh, someone dispatched to a location where they're on the ground and they're telling you about how the food smells and how the streets sound, and how the city architecture makes them feel. And I was like, that's the kind of writing I wanna do is, you know, it's not political watch dogging. It's something that is giving you a perspective, it is sharing a part of the world with you. Mm-hmm. And Harvard's program covered that style of writing really well because you can. Build that degree around what you want to do. Yeah. And there's so many different, like podcasting is a class on there, you know, and um, I'm in the constitution class now, so it's like communication law and first amendment protection and
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:13:36</time>
That's awesome.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:13:37</time>
Um, and you know, taking these other classes on first person narrative and um, other styles of writing that built the degree into something that I wanted to do and strengths I wanted to grow. And so it was kind of a no brainer to pick that program. And I knew they would challenge me. I knew they wouldn't take it easy on me and they had lived up to that, that's for sure. But I wouldn't enjoy it if it wasn't hard. It wouldn't be rewarding at the end if I didn't feel like I got beat down a few times. Yeah. I mean
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:14:06</time>
this is post 10th grade AP European history. I'm not here. Like,
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:14:10</time>
yeah. That girl can do anything. Yeah.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:14:13</time>
Monster Beast love.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:14:16</time>
Yeah. Yeah. And so it's, it was a great program. What I really love too is that's, that you can stack the certificates, you know, so I stacked the business communication certificate with it, which then also brings in this, you know, corporate writing side, which somewhere through the journalism program I decided I really did wanna lean into is to do journalism in-house for a company where you were just, you've given, you got like one subject that you can be the expert on and you can refine that voice and understand that corner of a market or industry. And that's what worked out really well for me. So the degree was tailored so perfect to what I wanted to do, and I'm learning something I love while I'm actively working in it and I'm being supported by my company in it. And it just kind of created this really perfect environment of all these little fragments, I think, of my pursuits and identity that I'd been kind of massaging over the years, all coming together and tying a really neat bow on it. And it just, it was one of those things that you just like it, it's right when you know what's right. And that was, that was the opportunity.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:15:17</time>
I love that. That's beautiful. And also, just for clarity, I do wanna say Harvard Extension School is one of the schools of Harvard. Um, it is the only online program that mm-hmm. Or it's the only school with online programs, I guess is the better way to say it, that you can complete. So if you know someone who's going to school at Harvard, but they don't live. In Boston or Cambridge. Um, they're probably going and getting a degree through Harvard Extension
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:15:51</time>
School. I've been to the campus a few times. I try to spend, like, I take any opportunity to go walk around Yeah. Or hang out. Like I'm out in Boston for work a lot. They'll fly me out there. And so it's, uh, like if I've, you know, got like a day where I'm not in office or I get there a little early, I'll just like work on campus. Like in like Widener, the student center Uhhuh, and it's like, Hmm, I'm a student here. I belong here and try to like, absorb it. But every time I'm there I'm like, I should quit my job and live here. This is beautiful. Are you kidding? Like, plant me here. Gorgeous. I want to live here in this brick. It's
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:16:22</time>
gorgeous. I cannot wait to go back. To end our conversation now that you have, you know, some literacy in sports.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:16:32</time>
Yes.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:16:33</time>
I'm going to ask you a few quick questions, just Okay. Answer whatever comes into your brain. And yes, there'll be sports related, but I have some, um. Other questions too. So,
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:16:45</time>
okay.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:16:46</time>
Question one. Number one, NFL team. There's a right answer and a wrong answer.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:16:53</time>
Uh, it's the Denver Broncos period, period,
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:16:57</time>
wrong
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:16:58</time>
period. How dare you, you think I'm gonna say the commanders?
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:17:04</time>
I said there's a right answer in a right. Your next question. Um, alright, let's go. Um, NBA basketball,
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:17:13</time>
I mean, my husband would make me say the Lakers, but I live in Colorado now, so go nuggets. Okay.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:17:20</time>
Okay. I can the nuggets accept that. Um, also because your husband's a Lakers fan, I will say basketball is the only sport where I am not a DC loyalist, first and foremost. Whoa. I am a Lakers fan. Okay. Hockey
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:17:39</time>
avalanche.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:17:41</time>
Okay.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:17:41</time>
I'm gonna list every Colorado team.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:17:43</time>
Okay. It's all Colorado. Okay. Okay.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:17:45</time>
Okay. Can ask about baseball next.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:17:47</time>
Baseball.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:17:49</time>
My God, the Rockies are shit. Can I swear on this podcast? Yeah. The Rockies are terrible. But you know what? Someone has to love them. Okay. If Denver's got a team, I'm gonna rep them. Okay. Because I wasn't ever into sports enough to have like any like hometown loyalty. Like my parents were like Angels fans growing up. We grew up in Southern California, right? Uhhuh. So my parents were Angels fans 'cause my grandparents were Angels fans. Sure. So I went to a lot of Angels games growing up. Uhhuh, but it, I was never like into sports. I never followed sports. And Southern California has so many teams, right? Like there are so many teams in Southern California. It's fun being in a state that just has one professional team in every league. Like California has so many football teams, Colorado has one. And so I love that kind of unity around like this is our one team. And since I'm just like new to sports, like I'm just gonna love all the Colorado sports. Love these, these are my guys now. I
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:18:45</time>
love them. All right, so last few questions. Um, number one, sports.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:18:52</time>
I got really into the NFL this season. Mm-hmm. So I'm gonna say football. I've been watching the combine this week. I don't even know what I'm watching, but I'm like, run boys. It's so much fun.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:19:01</time>
Incredible. Okay. So NFL that's the correct answer because same, uh, college sports. Do you have college sports alliances? Nces, um,
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:19:10</time>
beyond Harvard? Um, not too much. I'm trying to get into it. I, I, I watched Harvard's football season. Um, 'cause the undergrad I went to didn't have a football team, and so I never got the like college football experience. I understand. Yes. Which I, if even if there was there, I probably wouldn't have gone. Like, I couldn't have cared less in college. But now I'm like, oh no, I need that. And so I've, I've watched, I watched Harvard's team and they're notoriously terrific at football as all the Ivy League sports are. So again, it's loyalty. I'm gonna rep the boys Go Crimson. Um, but go Crimson. But we'll watch some college football now, but we'll watch the, the big schools that Oh, because you see all like the guys in the combine from these schools. Yes. And it's the usuals, right? It's all the usuals. And so you're like, ah, that it'd be fun to watch, you know? Yeah. The more this point, the more games the better. Yeah. Yeah.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:20:00</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:20:00</time>
As long as everyone's having fun.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:20:03</time>
Yeah. Totally. Totally. No, you're right. Absolutely. Shifting gears. Favorite book
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:20:12</time>
ever,
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:20:13</time>
ever?
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:20:14</time>
That's an impossible question. Mm.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:20:16</time>
Favorite book, right?
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:20:16</time>
Impossible. Um, Harry Potter.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:20:18</time>
Okay. Which one? Harry
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:20:19</time>
Potter Sorcerer Stone. Good.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:20:22</time>
Good answer.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:20:22</time>
I just, it's a comfort book. I read it over cover to cover. I finish it, start it right back over.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:20:27</time>
Yep. Prisoner of Asman for me, but yes, I agree. That's, yeah,
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:20:31</time>
that's probably my favorite movie I'd say. I,
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:20:34</time>
the, the director way to change the whole vibe.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:20:36</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:20:37</time>
Yeah,
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:20:37</time>
yeah,
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:20:38</time>
yeah.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:20:38</time>
I mean, maybe my favorite story in that Harry Potter series, but I just read the first one over again out of comfort. It's a warm blanket.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:20:46</time>
Yeah. I think my favorite story is the sixth one.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:20:48</time>
Yeah. Oh yeah. Mm-hmm. There's no bad, no bad
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:20:51</time>
one. There's no bad. Well, I, I, I'm not gonna lie, I don't love Order of the Phoenix.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:20:57</time>
Oh,
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:20:57</time>
yeah.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:20:58</time>
That one was
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:20:59</time>
hard. It, it gets very like moody, which is correct.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:21:03</time>
I remember for the first time as an adult, and I'm like, Harry, Crow up over it.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:21:06</time>
You read Harry Potter for the first time as an adult.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:21:09</time>
Oh, yes. Yes.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:21:12</time>
What my God. We could do a whole episode on that alone.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:21:16</time>
Start the episode over. I have a story.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:21:19</time>
We're gonna save it for another day, but we'll come back to that. Holy. Yes. We'll, holy. We are gonna have a hurry, water Hyper Fixation episode.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:21:28</time>
Ask me about nothing else.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:21:29</time>
Favorite media outlet. Or content outlet.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:21:34</time>
Wow. Okay. Doesn't
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:21:35</time>
have to be news.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:21:37</time>
Yeah. I think, um, have you heard of Monocle Monocle magazine?
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:21:40</time>
I
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:21:40</time>
have the Monocle Radio
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:21:42</time>
Uhhuh,
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:21:43</time>
90%, I would say of the like, news and media I consume is from Monocle, both like podcast and radio and their print. I've got a stack of magazines over here. I have been a Wow.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:21:52</time>
Physical,
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:21:53</time>
I, oh my gosh, I've been such a loyal subscriber for years. A big part of my journalism, self-development. There's, their writing inspires me. I think it's beautiful. I love it. I love it so much. That's another hyper fixation that's
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:22:04</time>
favorite piece.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:22:05</time>
Oh my gosh.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:22:05</time>
Ever. Is it a monocle piece or another piece?
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:22:10</time>
Maybe. Maybe a mono. There's so many good ones. Um. Mm-hmm. But, um, there is, so the journalist Clarissa Ward with CNN, she's a foreign correspondent and a certified badass. I think she's on her way to the Middle East as we speak. Ah-huh. 'cause when there is conflict, that woman is there in the flack jacket. She is. She's in Incredible. And so she, I mean, she's produced. Amazing journalism. Amazing journalism. But she wrote a book too that was so moving and so honest, and so raw and so good. I, it's called on all fronts. I recommend it to everybody. It's so good. Terrific. I haven ever read it? Absolutely. Terrific. Mm-hmm. Amazing. Highly recommend. Yeah.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:22:47</time>
Is she your favorite journalist?
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:22:50</time>
Probably.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:22:51</time>
Okay.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:22:52</time>
Probably. It was.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:22:53</time>
Yeah. That was my next question, so yeah.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:22:55</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:22:56</time>
That's an amazing, on all fronts. Okay, cool.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:22:58</time>
Mm-hmm.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:22:59</time>
Yeah. Um, and hmm. Favorite piece of journalism you have ever done?
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:23:09</time>
I got to write a piece. It was for, um, one of the journalism classes at the Harvard program, but I was able to get it published in a magazine here, and it was like a first person narrative, um, about, um, like the legacy that is embedded in recipes and how heritage is passed down through food. And it was specifically focusing on my grandmother's biscotti recipe, my Italian grandma, and, uh, how this was like such a staple recipe that she kind of made growing up. And I got to do this deep dive on biscotti. And I talked to people in Italy that worked in like the food industry and asking them like, you know, how authentic is Nanos recipe versus modified? And he's like, Italian recipes are so regional. So I got to learn all about. You know, like the pride in people's recipes. But him saying that by the ingredients she emphasizes in hers, you can kind of tell where she grew up and where her family was from, that they would use some ingredients over others. And it was so cool to learn about culture and heritage and like the subjectivity of the word authenticity and what that means to people and how people's cultural identities is passed down through their food. And in the process of researching this, I like mastered her recipe and bought the ingredients and practiced it and learned it. And it was like a really cool personal experience, but it was so special to get to research and write that. And it was one of the greatest things I got to like do and be a part of. So I'm grateful for the assignment to like give me that structure and help me do it. But then the professor's guidance was invaluable in sharpening these skills and encouraging me in that process. But then to see it in print at the end was really rewarding. It was really, is it online anywhere? Probably. Probably can try find it. Okay. Send it.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:24:54</time>
Okay. Yeah. I'd love to link it in the episode
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:24:58</time>
notes. Yeah. Agree.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:25:00</time>
Thank you so much for sharing so much with me today. We talked about so many Yeah. Pieces of your identity that somehow are pretty cohesive, you know? Um, there's
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:25:13</time>
a thread. Yeah.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:25:14</time>
There's a, I mean, the common thread is you, but I mean, everything, it's like Domino's, right? Yeah. Everything relates to the next, to the next, to the next. Um, mm-hmm. And in telling your, uh, your talking about these various experiences, you've also just taken us on like a journey, a very surface level journey of your life, which is pretty cool, especially as it's your birthday soon. So, yeah. Wow. Thank you for taking us through 20, uh, excuse me, 30. I almost said 21. 31 years of
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:25:50</time>
I know.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:25:51</time>
Emma eras. Wow.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:25:53</time>
We're celebrating my birthday in a cabin in Breckenridge for a ski trip. That is not gonna be a ski trip for me anymore.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:25:59</time>
Oh, you're not gonna ski
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:26:01</time>
I doctor's orders.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:26:04</time>
Oh damn. Dang darn.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:26:05</time>
I'm not clear till the end of April. So
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:26:08</time>
it's only because you're not Lindsay Vaughn don't feel bad.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:26:11</time>
I know There, there will be no ski, but there will be re
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:26:14</time>
Okay. Amazing. Amazing. You're okay. And honestly you're gonna come back so much stronger, you know? Yes, I am. When a bone breaks it, when it heals, it's stronger.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:26:26</time>
That's what I heard.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:26:27</time>
Also, you have plates.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:26:28</time>
Hey, fingers crossed. Yeah, I got I tating now so we're not breaking again.
<cite>Angeleaza:</cite>
<time>01:26:36</time>
But thank you so much for this time.
<cite>Emma:</cite>
<time>01:26:38</time>
Thank you.
<cite>Speaker 2:</cite>
<time>01:26:43</time>
What are You is a one-woman production by me, angel Liza. Our theme song is Picking Our Dreams by Hector Seria. If you enjoyed today's episode, please follow us on Instagram at What Are You Pod and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Questions. Wanna be on the show, email at [email protected]. Thanks for listening.

Stay in the loop