I am a person with multiple disabilities, neurodivergent, and passionate disabili-wonk (with Adam!)

Angeleaza (00:25)
Hello everyone and today I have a really special guest. this one is extra special because this is our first male on the podcast. Everyone, let's give a big welcome to Adam. Adam. ⁓

Adam Fishbein (00:39)
Hi everyone!

Angeleaza (00:41)
Thank you for being here today.

Adam Fishbein (00:43)
Yeah, of course. I'm so happy to be here.

Angeleaza (00:46)
Amazing. Adam, do you mind just telling us a little bit about who you are?

Adam Fishbein (00:51)
Sure. well, I'm from the Philadelphia suburbs, go birds, go Phillies, go Flyers, ⁓ not as much as Sixers. I grew up in that area. I lived there for 18 years, went to American University and been in DC or the surrounding area for about

Angeleaza (00:57)
Booooo.

Adam Fishbein (01:13)
my whole adult life since then. I'm a big singer. I'm in a Jewish acapella group and I'm big disability advocate and policy wonk. Hashtag disabila wonk. And

a great amazing girlfriend shout out Abby so and awesome friends too like Angeleaza

Angeleaza (01:36)
Out Out Abby. Abby is pretty cool.

Thank you. I appreciate you. And yeah, I feel like that's a pretty good summation of who you are, but I am noticing that you did forget one very special someone.

Adam Fishbein (01:54)
⁓ yeah, and I of course have my amazing supermutt, Zip. His Instagram handle is at ZippityDooDog with two Gs.

Angeleaza (02:05)
incredible and we'll make sure to tag zip in the show notes But today we're here to talk about just a little piece of who you are Adam.

So Adam and I met,

via mutual friends and then became friends. And we really bonded over many things, music, sports, and then ADHD and

coping mechanisms and I think we'll talk a little bit more about that today, which leads me to Adam, what are you?

Adam Fishbein (02:38)
Yeah.

I am a...

Person with multiple disabilities Neurodivergent

and passionate disabilawonk

Angeleaza (02:57)
Amazing. So Let's deep this. Tell me more. are your disabilities? What has your disability journey been? Why is this something that you feel is such an important notable facet of your identity?

Adam Fishbein (03:12)
Yeah, I think it all stems from my upbringing and my childhood with multiple disabilities, Tourette syndrome, ADHD, combined type, a mood disorder not otherwise specified, ⁓ generalized anxiety disorder, processing speed delay.

and just general quirkiness, which isn't a disability, but just, know, me. and, it's been a really important facet of my identity because growing up was not easy on me or my family.

I was very fortunate to have parents who knew how to advocate for me and had the resources to advocate for me. so growing up, I had the people around me that I needed. And then

Eventually when I was more an adolescent or a teen, I started thinking about what I wanted to do in life. And I realized I wanted to help others. specifically I kind of honed in on disability advocacy and advocating for people with disabilities like myself who could not

or did not have the resources to advocate for themselves. And that led to a lot of advocacy. And now I've been doing it professionally for as long as I can remember. ⁓ I...

Yeah, it's kind of my whole thing.

Angeleaza (05:01)
which is amazing and thank you so much for all of that. that was a fairly consolidated summation of your journey from your beginnings But I do wanna kind of break it apart a little bit, the pieces of your journey.

So you told us about your diagnoses. How old were you when you were diagnosed with each of those different, ⁓ well, for lack of a better word, we'll just call them disabilities

Adam Fishbein (05:33)
I do prefer disabilities. But everyone's language is different, right? so I was in second grade when I was diagnosed with ADHD and Tourette syndrome in that order. I don't really remember when I was diagnosed with anxiety

and mood disorder. but those ADHD and syndrome diagnoses were really pretty integral in my journey because up to that point we didn't really know a whole lot about what was going on with me.

When I was in class, in school, I would be under the table barking and making noises and generally ticking, ⁓ which at the time we didn't know was ticking and was uncontrollable.

But, you know, after about, I mean, more than 10 different doctors and specialists that we saw to figure out what it was, all kinds of doctors, we eventually found Dr. Anthony Rothstein.

Shout out to him and immediately when my when my parents Described my symptoms. He was like, ⁓ those are ticks that is Tourette syndrome and so in second grade my parents set up a

a series of assemblies for my elementary school that went through the Pennsylvania Tourette Syndrome Alliance that were like educational assemblies for each grade about Tourette Syndrome. And I spoke and someone from Patsa spoke too. And

that was a pretty integral point in my journey. and every year my parents and I would go to Harrisburg to advocate for funding of Tourette's syndrome,

in Pennsylvania, which basically was PATSA. fast forward to high school, I became their first youth board representative. And then I was on the board for several years after I turned 18. And I was actually their vice president of the board for a while.

That's all to say, from a very young age, I was involved in this organization that really gave me a voice, or at least gave me a platform to take control of my disabilities, at least one of them, and do good.

Angeleaza (08:33)
that is amazing. And I think you're absolutely right. that's not necessarily an avenue many people have to take or everybody who experiences these disabilities has to take. that's so wonderful that your parents were just so supportive in providing that resource and that education.

for your peers. I wish I had that when I was in school,

Adam Fishbein (09:01)
Yeah.

Actually, on that point, my school district...

They did their best, but we did end up needing to sue them ⁓ for not providing me with my free appropriate public education in the least restrictive environment. I got placed in a different school starting in fourth grade because

they could accommodate my needs better.

Angeleaza (09:31)
And was that different school a part of the same school district or was that school? ⁓ wow.

Adam Fishbein (09:36)
No, it was a private school for kids

with disabilities.

Angeleaza (09:41)
So when you sued the school district, what was the outcome?

Adam Fishbein (09:46)
I mean, it was a whole process. My parents were really great in how they documented the school district's failure to accommodate me meet my needs. and we settled, the settlement was

basically them paying for the cost of my schooling at this private school that could meet my needs better and transporting me there.

Angeleaza (10:14)
Wow.

have you watched the show on Peacock called All Her Fault

Adam Fishbein (10:20)
I started it.

Angeleaza (10:21)
I'm not sure if you got to this part, but one of the characters has a son who experiences a lot of disabilities and a plot point of the show is the character,

is trying to figure out a way to get his son into a lottery-based school that can accommodate his disabilities and his needs.

What were your needs? Do you mind going into what those accommodations were and why you needed them?

Adam Fishbein (10:51)
not... I don't remember a whole lot from like my childhood, from the first person point of view.

I definitely needed extra time. I needed alternative ways of...

of like learning I have a fine motor delay. So writing for me was really hard. And in 2005 to seven, computers were barely a thing, or at least in my school, it was mostly writing.

like by hand.

also needed breaks. since senior year of high school, I've taken 70 milligrams of Vyvanse, which is the highest possible dose. sorry, it's a stimulant.

Angeleaza (11:58)
What is Vyvanse? Do you mind if we elaborate?

Adam Fishbein (12:01)
It's a ADHD medicine

Angeleaza (12:02)
Okay.

Adam Fishbein (12:03)
the Vyvanse just gets me to a baseline of being attentive and focused and I like I have strategies that I have to use in coping mechanisms to

stay focused and manage my energy levels, like my mental energy levels, because it is absolutely exhausting to have ADHD.

Angeleaza (12:27)
Well, I want to get into

that a little bit, but before I do, I'm going to ask you to break down some of what your disabilities are, what they mean, because I know you and I communicate about a lot of symptoms of neurodivergent conditions in a sort of shorthand, but I know that

what we talk about and what we send each other memes about on Instagram is not necessarily common knowledge. I didn't know about a lot of the things that we reference and that you've already referenced before I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was 27.

But before we get there, you did mention that you don't remember a lot of your childhood from the first person point of view. Why is that?

Adam Fishbein (13:19)
I'm not sure. My memory is not great. It could be a trauma response ⁓ to just the way that my childhood was.

But yeah, I'm honestly not sure why. I've tried to probe it a lot. And there are times when I have little flashes of it, but it's it's kind of a blur.

Angeleaza (13:50)
That is really interesting. Do you think that it's a trauma response to your childhood in regard to your disabilities or just in regard to other elements of your childhood?

Adam Fishbein (14:02)
I

know, definitely my disabilities, like, and I, I mean, there were some times that, you know, my family went through it. I won't get into like super specifics, but my, you know, my, there were some challenges, like we, we, I had some behavioral challenges that, ⁓ took a toll.

on and mental health challenges that took a toll on my family and my siblings and me. I mean, you know, I,

I had to go to boarding school at one point, a residential treatment center, because I just couldn't cope. My self-regulation was just... Or my regulation of my emotions and the coping mechanisms that I needed to kind of get through the day.

⁓ we're just not there and I.

You know, I was, I was at a boarding school for, or one boarding school for two years and then another for one year. And, ⁓ before I came home, ⁓ but like during that, I mean, that time saved my life. Like I, I learned so many kind of different coping mechanisms that I, I

could use to function and kind of keep my.

keep myself in check ⁓ while also being sure to myself and like I basically learned how to function in society which

Yeah, and, and...

And that was, that was a hard,

Angeleaza (16:31)
I'm so glad to hear that your boarding school experience and your time in that residential treatment facility was so positive. I was actually recently listening to another podcast that is amazing ⁓ called Dead Certain.

they talk a lot about a boarding school that one of the murder suspects was sent to as a sort of behavioral treatment program and the abuse that

those students suffered at the hands of that school is horrific.

it was so heartbreaking to listen to. But it is also so good to hear on the flip side that there has been progress in that space. Is that universal progress, would you say?

Adam Fishbein (17:19)
Yeah. Yeah.

Well,

I would say... ⁓

My parents did a lot of research on the boarding schools that we looked at. It was a process and the boarding school we decided on was great in that it

they really incorporated the family in a way that doesn't lend itself to that kind of abuse. As a requirement for attending that,

residential treatment center, the family has to be on board and has to be, like you can't just ship your ship your son or daughter off there. It's, it's not, it's not like that. It's, it's not.

I feel for so many of those families that entrust their child onto these schools and to get better, be able to function in society and then

Honestly, it's both heartbreaking and infuriating. And no matter how hard it is for those staff, for the staff there, or no matter what.

It shouldn't be like that. There's never an excuse for treating people abusively. I mean, it's so counterproductive. It's so counterproductive.

Angeleaza (19:47)
Let's go back. So let's bring it back to the beginning. Let's talk about your different diagnoses.

Adam Fishbein (19:56)
I want to preface all of this by saying I noticed in the past, especially around COVID, ⁓ that there was a proliferation of accounts that were kind of

capitalizing on things that that

Maybe there's symptoms of ADHD, but...

Basically making everyone think they have ADHD. if you think you have ADHD, go to a doctor. I mean, obviously doctor access to a doctor is not necessarily easy, but ⁓ especially in our system, but do your best. Like don't self-diagnose

ADHD ⁓ is a ⁓ neurological disorder ⁓ that relates to ⁓ your focus. ⁓ So there's inattentive type and then there's hyperactive type. ⁓

Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. And I have combined type, so I can both be very inattentive and hyperactive. What that means is when I'm in a group setting, I have a really hard time focusing.

I either space out or I bounce from conversation to conversation or I am just silly and kind of bounce. It's I feed on the external energy

and the vibe so like for that reason I love being around my friends.

I used to like love being at bars and in like a crowded environment. Not to drink, but just to like be around people and like take in the energy and the vibe and

Let my dopamine receptors just like go crazy.

that's one thing, right? My focus in group settings,

way that my energy matches the vibe and my surroundings ⁓ and I am pretty sensitive to my environment to my external environment. ⁓ You know, I'm also very susceptible to

like drained mental energy. because it takes so much effort to focus and stay on task, by the end of the day, I am just exhausted. And I'm not, talking about like how everyone

might be exhausted at the end of the day, I'm talking about, I can't go to happy hour. I need a nap. I need a nap after work. I need to go right home, lay in my bed and nap. And that is that. I just need a nap. My energy is just zapped.

Angeleaza (24:06)
How does that make you feel? Not to be clinical, but do you feel, have you ever felt like maybe if you can't go to happy hour that that impacts your quality of life or is it pretty easy for you to accept, ⁓ this is just a part of me because if I do try to push through, then I will suffer on the flip side.

Adam Fishbein (24:10)
I was about to say!

I've come to terms with that. Like, I need to kinda force myself to have that... recharge time... or... decompression time.

I think nowadays I'm just like, I don't mind. but, when I was like earlier in my twenties,

I would get home from work or get done work, nap, and then later on I would be like, okay, I'm ready to go. I want to go, go, go, go, go. And, you know, living in Adams Morgan or surrounding area in DC is like, I would just go to Madam's Oregon, which is a,

an amazing live music venue, bar, I was a regular there for several years.

That's the best example of it. I would go alone. I would just go and like chill and be with the music

Angeleaza (25:43)
And I do have a question about this sort of taking in the vibes and feeding off the vibes. would you identify yourself as an extrovert by chance? So would you attribute that sort of vibe feeding, recharging through energy around you, would you attribute that to your ADHD?

Adam Fishbein (25:53)
Yes.

Angeleaza (26:06)
more specifically than you would to your extra version.

Adam Fishbein (26:10)
I think it kind of goes in tandem with it. know, everyone with ADHD isn't an extrovert. But the fact that I am an extrovert, it just means that when my energy is zapped,

One of the ways I recharge is through being around a lot of people and

in an environment with lot of stimuli.

Angeleaza (26:44)
That makes sense to me. ⁓ I mean, two things can be true. You can recharge through rest and you can recharge through people. mean, there doesn't need to be a binary answer one way or the other. I ask that because I don't identify as an extrovert.

Adam Fishbein (26:57)
Yeah, exactly.

Angeleaza (27:02)
I identify as an introvert I do enjoy being around people and I do enjoy meeting people and obviously speaking with people, but is that where I get my energy? No, I do need, and I've learned this about myself over many, many, years, but I do need that time to decompress, to recharge alone or in a very small group.

And without that, I drain an empty battery constantly.

The way you describe ADHD reminds me of the way that ADHD was always described to us when I was in elementary school. It was always that boy doing that crazy wacky thing.

Adam Fishbein (27:53)
Mm-hmm.

Angeleaza (27:54)
over in the corner, running around, being loud, yelling, being silly. Yeah, but that was not me. was not at all. When I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was 27,

Adam Fishbein (28:01)
me

It was not you, I'm sure.

Angeleaza (28:11)
I was told that I had exhibited very strong symptoms of ADHD my whole life. I had developed sort of my own coping mechanisms for myself to function. And I mean, part of why I wasn't diagnosed with ADHD

Adam Fishbein (28:20)
Mm-hmm.

Angeleaza (28:27)
until I was 27 was because I was a high performer. I always got great grades. I did every single activity under the sun. I was good, well behaved, in school and in my extracurriculars. And I always tried to do the right thing. Also, I can focus.

I do have in attentive ADHD versus hyperactive, but my focus is so intense that what I am inattentive to is my physical needs, my biological needs. So for example, I can sit and work on a project for 10 hours straight, no stopping, totally forgetting. I need to eat. I need to go to the bathroom. I need to.

Adam Fishbein (29:11)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Angeleaza (29:19)
do this chore and that chore and that chore. And then when I come out of that sort of hyper-focus, that hypnosis, I realize, ⁓ snap, I didn't do everything else. And then that was my cycle every day. Sometimes it still is. I've worked really hard on breaking some of those mental habits, but that was my cycle every day.

Adam Fishbein (29:21)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Angeleaza (29:42)
I would get to the end of the day and beat myself up because I would realize everything else I forgot or wasn't paying attention to because I was so hyper focused. in terms of hyperactivity, I have like

ticks ⁓ my fiance and I call them our tisms He always has to have like a pop pop thing. When he watches TV, he always needs to be doing something with his hands. My feet cannot stay still. And for your legs, always move.

Adam Fishbein (30:06)
⁓

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, my legs. My legs

constantly shaking. yeah.

Angeleaza (30:25)
that's how I feel stable and solid and centered.

Adam Fishbein (30:27)
Mm-hmm.

Angeleaza (30:30)
and grounded, So ⁓ it's interesting how different the ADHD experiences can be. I also take a stimulant, I take Adderall, but it took me years to get to a place where I felt comfortable.

because I started with a different stimulant and it was a horrible, horrible, horrible experience.

Adam Fishbein (30:50)
on topic of medicine. my god the different iterations that my like medicine regimen took throughout my childhood insane absolutely insane now I take

Angeleaza (31:04)
Yeah.

Adam Fishbein (31:08)
I've taken pretty much the same cocktail since senior year of high school basically and just like with some adjustments in terms of dosage, but like it stabilizes me and then I use my other coping mechanisms to kinda even it all out.

Angeleaza (31:29)
So on that topic, what are your other coping mechanisms for this or any of your other disabilities?

And I'm sure there's overlap. Is that right

Adam Fishbein (31:38)
Yeah,

don't have the statistics, but most people with Threat Syndrome have some kind of co-occurring disorder. Most common, I think, is ADHD and OCD. I don't have OCD, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.

My coping mechanisms tend to be in my decompression time and keeping myself busy and the structure of my day. I've learned at work how to be very, very organized.

took a lot of time and effort and it still takes a lot of time and effort. it's really interesting I'm like, pretty type A, I would say and in my in my work life, in that I'm very productive. And I know how to be productive and I know how to be kind of the model worker and like,

and that kind of organization in my work. But then I get home and I'm like...

I need to put away my laundry and it sits for days. And... God. ⁓

Angeleaza (32:59)
I can relate to that. All of that so

deeply. I am so good at work. I was good at school.

Adam Fishbein (33:08)
actually wasn't good at school

I had a hard time with school because of the grades and the the requirements and like the tests and all the things that go with like having to focus for however many hours.

a day in classes and having to then somehow structure myself and my day to to get my assignments and my readings done and and focusing on reading right my god reading and focus to read is like

It's so hard.

I love I love reading don't get me wrong. I love reading and I'm an avid reader but

Keeping my focus a book really requires me to be interested in that content. But...

you know that that wasn't always the case when when i was in school um yeah school was really hard uh but i i was an a and b student and i had accommodations that leveled the playing field

I had double time on tests involving math or writing, but one and a half on the other, and I can't remember which one was which. ⁓

My college accommodations are easier to remember. Yeah, so I had extra time. could use my computer for notes. That was a requirement for me even when there were policies against that.

I had like this like...

like note pad that had like a pen that where the pen would record and then the notes that I wrote like on the pad would correspond to the audio a live scribe pen! It was really helpful in like

when I would need to go back and I wasn't good at taking notes and listening to the lecture or whatever it was. I basically it was it was easier for me to just focus on on the lecture and not have to worry about

taking those notes because I just, couldn't, I couldn't split that focus.

Angeleaza (35:44)
Yeah, no, that definitely makes sense. feel similarly, I did take a lot of notes, but in my taking notes, I had a hard time prioritizing information.

Let's talk about what a processing delay looks like in the context of your ADHD and your other disabilities.

Adam Fishbein (36:05)
there are a few ways that it manifests. One is when you're talking to me and you're asking me a question and it's like a complex question, let's say, that requires a complex answer.

I need some time. even some, some simpler questions or things like.

sometimes I have a really hard time getting my words out.

Sometimes I know exactly what I want to say and like organizing my thoughts and then structuring them in a way that makes sense and is coherent. A lot of times takes a lot of effort for me and it can be kind of slow.

Angeleaza (37:01)
is the delay there? Is that a delay of processing from your brain to literally your mouth and your resonators?

Adam Fishbein (37:11)
It's more of the organization in my mind and then translating that to my mind.

Angeleaza (37:17)
Got it.

Got it. I, okay. That's fair. when I get nervous or I'm in a situation where I'm not entirely at ease, I can also have those moments because I'm sort of internally frazzled

Adam Fishbein (37:21)
So guess kind of both, a little bit.

Angeleaza (37:39)
I need to take that time as well to organize my words, organize my thoughts if I feel that pressure. But it's only in social settings I feel like. I don't feel like it's in a work setting quite as much at least.

Adam Fishbein (37:53)
Yeah,

I've gotten a lot better at it in work settings. Like

when I know what I'm talking about and like I know my talking points, forget about it. like when I'm talking about disability things, forget about it. But when it's more complex stuff that

It doesn't have like a set answer, it's more spontaneous. That can be kind of hard.

Angeleaza (38:24)
That's fair. Let's talk about Tourette's. What exactly are the symptoms of Tourette's?

Adam Fishbein (38:27)
Yeah.

Yeah, so one, a tick can be anything. A tick is a uncontrollable movement or sound.

Ticks, wax, and wane. So you might have a tick one week and then a different tick the next week or they can morph into different versions of themselves. ⁓ There are motor ticks which are motor so it's movements

Angeleaza (38:49)
and cheers to all.

Adam Fishbein (39:01)
There can be simple or complex motor tics. Simple is like involving one kind of body part or movement. And then complex can be like a pattern or ⁓ a set of movements.

The then there's like vocal ticks which are which are sounds or vocalizations or words. the simple vocal ticks can be like a.

or a...

Like kind of a one kind of simple sound. ⁓ A complex vocal tick can be like a ⁓ set, similar to what I said about simple and complex motor ticks. I have a lot of vocal ticks whistling, which a lot of times manifests itself in

whistling tunes like songs and just like a constant kind of low murmur of sound or humming or a ⁓ fire siren

If I'm like in a very kind of hyper excited mood or excitable, ⁓ a lot of times in the morning is when my tics will be

it's really the that uncontrollable aspect of it is the kind of important part. Also, some people, including me, some people can suppress their tics.

Angeleaza (40:41)
with her.

Adam Fishbein (40:56)
but it's not natural and it takes a lot of energy and eventually it has to come out. in that sense, but like you, you'll feel it on the tail end.

Angeleaza (40:59)
What does that feel like? Uh-huh.

Yeah.

Adam Fishbein (41:12)
asking someone who has Tourette and is ticking you stop or can you try to stop or like, it's a no-go. It's not okay.

Angeleaza (41:25)
What does it feel like when you try to suppress it? Is it like holding back a sneeze?

Adam Fishbein (41:29)
It's

yeah, like holding back a sneeze, trying not to blink. actually holding back sneeze is a really good, good example yeah, I guess it depends on the person too.

Angeleaza (41:39)
You said that you can suppress your tics. Is that something you've learned or is it just something that you've discovered about yourself?

Adam Fishbein (41:43)
Sometimes.

I think it depends on the situation.

As an adult, society does not always accept, even if you wanted to, even if it should, society does not always accept the kind of disruptive nature of some ticks and...

it's kinda been a...

learned masking.

by necessity.

Angeleaza (42:25)
Can you explain what masking

is?

Adam Fishbein (42:29)
Yeah, so It's basically putting on a mask of your symptoms, or your true self in your neurodivergent self. So, ⁓ what other people might consider weird.

or out of the ordinary, you suppress that because

It's not socially acceptable or whatever reason.

Angeleaza (43:06)
Well, thank you for that. That was a good explainer of Tourette's. Have we exhausted all of your diagnoses? We got ADHD. ⁓

Adam Fishbein (43:07)
Does, yeah.

We didn't really do anxiety,

Mine is generalized anxiety disorder and

That can, that manifests itself in a lot of different ways. ⁓ I generally am a worrier. And yeah, like, ⁓ but it's, more than just like worrying, like, typical kind of

Angeleaza (43:36)
also a worrier. I identify as such.

Adam Fishbein (43:45)
everyday worrying. It's like worrying that is at an intensity and a, uh, sometimes irrational. I mean, when I was younger, it was oftentimes irrational.

You know, one example of a kind of strain of my anxiety was back in the day in childhood. Uh, there was a corner store, McKinley market. one of the things I worried about was that someone, uh, and trigger warning here.

violence, someone like a robber, would come into the store and hold it up at gunpoint while I was in there. And the chance of that happening in Elkins Park, Pennsylvania,

I mean, I don't know the crime statistics, but... Not a big crime area, but I was terrified. of my loved ones or my friends going somewhere and getting robbed. kind of that...

Angeleaza (44:55)
Did you see like

a movie where someone got robbed or something?

Adam Fishbein (44:58)
No,

no I didn't. ⁓

I don't know. To this day, I worry about the... Catastrophize is really the word for it. Or spiral.

Angeleaza (45:15)
or spiral, if you will.

learning about anxiety and the existence of a quote unquote anxiety disorder for me was something that was hugely helpful because before I learned that there was a diagnosis for a condition.

Adam Fishbein (45:26)
Mm-hmm.

yeah.

Angeleaza (45:41)
I just thought I was just crazy and loopy and why am I crying about things that aren't happening?

Adam Fishbein (45:46)
Crazy, yeah. No, my- my mom...

my mom has dealt with anxiety her whole life and my mom is the best

Like, she knows exactly what to do depending on the situation of like what I'm anxious about she just knows. And I mean, she's 61 years old. So wisdom, right? But like, oh my God, having that person who understands is a game changer.

Angeleaza (46:30)
That is beautiful. And that's so amazing for you It is a privilege. Yeah, but I mean, that is, that's invaluable. That's a tool, that's a privilege, that's everything.

Adam Fishbein (46:34)
privilege. It really is.

Angeleaza (46:44)
to kind of tie a little bow on this conversation about everything disability related. How does being someone with disabilities make you feel just in general?

Adam Fishbein (46:57)
Yeah, so I, I've always felt that my disabilities make like all of me and what makes me me includes my disabilities and

we talked about a lot of the negatives about ADHD and neurodivergence, but oh my God, the creativity and the different ways that your brain works.

Like, the way that my brain works is actually so fascinating to me, and ⁓ I actually take a lot of pride in it.

I mean, most of my disabilities are like in the brain, right? Or in the mind. And that...

that makes me feel just fascinated and like I have a more interesting life than a lot of neurotypicals. And that's not to say neurotypicals are bad it just, it gives my life a little more pizzazz.

Angeleaza (48:16)
A little more sparkle.

Adam Fishbein (48:18)
Yeah, spark.

Angeleaza (48:19)
the way that you framed your love and wholehearted acceptance of who you are and your disabilities. I just found that very beautiful and very inspiring as somebody who, I'm not quite to where you are yet. I mean, it's not a linear journey, but I have times where I'm like,

Adam Fishbein (48:39)
Yeah. No it's not. Yeah.

Angeleaza (48:43)
Wow, amazing. and I can, grow and I can know myself more and better than I did when I was 26. When I was 25, I can live a more mindful and just more full life with this knowledge, with this diagnosis. However,

I do get into patterns of beating myself up. I also, the same time, I do feel like it gives me a lot of space to forgive myself that I didn't feel like I ever had prior to being diagnosed because didn't know,

So we're coming into our last segment. normally, I would have asked you to tell me more about advocacy and what an advocate is a little earlier. However, you told us at the beginning that what you wanted to be when you grow up is a disability advocate. So

tell me about what an advocate is and Why did you decide you wanted to be an advocate?

Adam Fishbein (49:59)
Well, an advocate is it's someone who... who isn't just thinking about themselves. Someone who pushes for...

something in society to be better, to make progress on some aspect of our lives. ⁓

because I had the ideal growing up I wanted to use that privilege to

make that progress for others who do not or did not have that privilege of having the advocate and the village ⁓ to get through the hard times and build resilience

⁓ so that's, that's a huge reason why I wanted to be an advocate.

Angeleaza (51:06)
love that. And you mentioned earlier in the episode that your parents were so, such strong advocates for you and your life and in your journey navigating a life with these disabilities. What, how did you learn that what they did for you could be a career, could be a job, could be something that it goes beyond what they did for you.

personally and you could do that for someone or many someones beyond yourself.

Adam Fishbein (51:46)
I mean, from high school on, I positioned myself

One, to be in different programs and internships, making connections and being involved in advocacy work for different organizations. Networking was a huge part of it.

which is such a cliche, but it's a cliche for a reason, making those connections with other disability advocates. I definitely followed a track that led me to my previous job before my current one.

was in the office of disability employment policy at the US department of labor. And that was like, when I got that job, that was my dream job. I was a policy advisor. I was doing disability policy systems change work.

I wanted to be there my whole career.

And the way I got there was by making myself known and positioning myself throughout college to, I, I, first I had an internship from a, from a connection that, that I got through a connection, um, that led to this, you know, this, me having a better chance of getting this internship. And then from there,

I learned about, you know, this other internship program that then I was able to get into and it was a very well known one. And from there that kind of branched out and I was still involved in the organization that I, that I interned with. ⁓ and like, I, it's all very like spiderweb, like different

branches or tree branches of my, I have a huge network is basically what I'm saying. And that's, that was the, an integral part of it.

Angeleaza (54:19)
That's amazing.

Yeah, no, that's incredible. Would you say that other employees at ODAP ⁓ were also disabled

Adam Fishbein (54:31)
there's a big population of that, big percentage.

Angeleaza (54:33)
Amazing. Well, do you feel

like that having that experience makes you a stronger advocate or having some sort of connection to somebody who does experience disability in some capacity makes you a stronger advocate or do you think it's just, yeah.

Adam Fishbein (54:48)
I mean yeah, yeah,

absolutely.

Angeleaza (54:52)
was there anything else that you ever wanted to be when you grew up? Like, did you want to be a dinosaur or an astronaut at any point?

Adam Fishbein (55:00)
There was a point when I wanted to be a psychologist or therapist, like something like that. ⁓ then I realized I wanted to make like a difference on a

more macro level than a therapy or a psychology setting.

Angeleaza (55:22)
Amazing. Last question before I let you go live your life. What is your most exciting tic?

Adam Fishbein (55:35)
The Fire Siren.

Angeleaza (55:37)
And why is that so exciting?

Adam Fishbein (55:42)
It's just so realistic and it makes my dog zip how? Because he thinks I'm a firetruck. It helps when there's actually a firetruck going by and I do it and he how?

Angeleaza (55:52)
because he thinks you're a firetruck.

incredible.

Yeah.

Adam Fishbein (56:08)
But yeah, it's very cute.

Angeleaza (56:10)
Adam, thank you so much for speaking with me today. I know we talked long, we talked hard, and I know that you decompressed before this, but you probably need to decompress again.

Adam Fishbein (56:10)
please do.

I'm just, happy. Thank you for having me.

Angeleaza (56:24)
It's amazing.

And I'd love to have you back on to talk about your hyper fixation in a later episode Thank you.

Adam Fishbein (56:32)
Yeah.

Stay in the loop